[Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Scott Dredge
sdredge at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 29 16:02:02 PDT 2007
If we had equal protection, we wouldn't need hate crime legislation now would we? All crimes would be prosecuted based on the crime committed not based on who the crime was committed against. Since they are not, and since some people in positions of power have chosen in the past not to prosecute crimes against minorities, etc., hate crime legislation was introduced to remedy that situation. It's been upheld on appeal as constitutionally sound. Maybe someday hate crime legislation will be as obsolete as the anti-sodomy laws and the anti mixed-race marriage laws and then we can strike them from the books.
What rights are being denied? Health care benefits between same sex partners, property transfer in excess of $11,000 per year without tax penalties between same sex couples, property transfer to a surviving same sex partner without tax penalty and a step up in cost basis, to name a few. There are a whole host of others. You seem to think that this is something good for the country...offering benefits to married couples and denying same sex couples both marriage and the equal benefits. Why? Because there are only 3% of them and gayness might catch? Because there might be proportionally as many sham same sex marriages as there are sham heterosexual marriages. I don't think the percentage of gays in the overall population has much to with it. Marriage laws can easily scale to same sex partners . Why else have there been a slew of amendments to state constitutions defining marriage? The answer is because the existing marriage laws didn't define it
and if they did you wouldn't need to be tinkering with the constitutions.
-Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
To: Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:25:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
Enacting hate crime legislation to provide special
protection to a small (or large, for that matter) group who feel put upon is bad
law. It is the very antithesis of equal protection. There is a major
difference between denying rights and granting unique rights. Aside from the
marriage issue, which we all know has nothing to do with marriage in the
conventional sense, what rights are being denied homosexuals?
The specific arguments have indeed been clearly
laid out time and again. What has yet to be explained rationally is why
providing special considerations to less than 3% of the U.S. population is good
for the country.
So, how about it? How exactly will the country
become a better place if yet another group is added to the list of those unable
to make their own way in the world without the help of mommy
government?
g
----- Original Message -----
From:
Scott Dredge
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:42
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's
official statement
I
don't know Gary, is it possible? If someone happens to be in a position
of power and is denying rights for homosexuals and homosexual couples that are
already available for hetoresexuals and heterosexual couples, don't you think
that they should be able clearly explain why they believe same sex marriage /
hate crime / equal rights is bad for the country instead of just saying "I
believe it's bad" without citing any specifics?
-Scott
-----
Original Message ----
From: g. crabtree
<jampot at roadrunner.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart
<godshatter at yahoo.com>; Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
Cc:
vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:25:46
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Leaving aside the question of Senator Craig's
sexuality, did I miss the legislation that made it mandatory that all
homosexuals march in lockstep with the whole same sex marriage/hate crime/pro
special rights agenda? Is it not possible to be homosexual and sincerely
believe that these things are bad for the country and vote accordingly?
Apparently not, what the heck could I have been thinking...
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:45
PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official
statement
> Hey, I don't have anything to prove here. I was just stating
that,
> based upon what I had heard at the time, it sounded possible
that he
> might have been innocent of the charges despite what he said
in court.
> Not that he *was* innocent, not that I wanted him to
be innocent, not
> that I even give a flying fsck whether he was
innocent or not. That was
> based upon a story that detailed the
crimes of touching another mans
> foot in the stall next to you and
reaching under the partition.
>
> What a truly horrific thing for
me to say. I should be ashamed of myself.
>
> At the time,
I hadn't read the NY Times article that Tom posted. The
>
standing outside the restroom door for two minutes looking through the
> crack thing falls neatly into the category of "odd behavior".
>
> So, ok, maybe he is a hypocrite. So here is another thought
that will
> probably get me reviled as Satan's second cousin or
something, but how
> do you avoid be hypocritical on some subjects when
you are ostensibly
> representing your constituents? What do you
do if you are inwardly
> pro-homosexual, but your constituency
isn't? Were you elected to vote
> as you wish? Or were you
elected to vote as your constituency wishes?
> If he's a
hypocrite, he became one the day he courted the electorate
> that
differed from his own personal views.
>
> Paul
>
>
Scott Dredge wrote:
>> Oh give it up, Paul and Roger. Are you
guys not paying attention? You can find Larry Craig's hypocrisy just
about everywhere. Did you not see his press conference today? The
first sentence out of his mouth was, "Thank you all very much for 'coming out'
today" as if all the reporters and everyone else in the audience had some
closeted secret that had come to light and they were owning up to it unlike
himself. Criminy! If that ain't hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what
hypocrisy is. Of course, maybe I don't know. Hmmm...let me think
about that a bit...
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
----- Original Message ----
>> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Joe
Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:29 AM
>> Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>>
>> My
sentiments also. I don't know where Craig stands on sexuality. Joe. maybe you
could let us know were the hypocrisy is?
>> -----Original
message-----
>> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
>>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:26 -0700
>> To: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official
statement
>>
>>
>>> Sure, be my
guest.
>>>
>>> You're
welcome.
>>>
>>> Is he actively anti-homosexual or
something? Despite the fact that he
>>> gave me a
nomination to the Air Force Academy in 1984 (which turned me
>>>
down) I haven't really followed his career that
much.
>>>
>>> I'm just saying that I'd hate to be in
that situation and not actually
>>> be guilty. Tapping your
right foot. Who knew? I might also be tempted
>>> to
just pay the damn fine and hope nobody notices,
too.
>>>
>>> I do know I plan to keep both feet
solidly on the floor for the duration
>>> next time I'm in an
airport restroom.
>>>
>>>
Paul
>>>
>>> Joe Campbell
wrote:
>>>
>>>>
Paul,
>>>>
>>>> You're not really that naive,
are you? How about hypocrisy? Can we accuse him of
that?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe
Campbell
>>>>
>>>>
--------------------
>>>>
>>>> The article I
read in the Washington Post said that he had tapped the
>>>>
foot of the person in the stall next him and reached under the
>>>> partition. Naive to ways of the dance of restroom stall
courtship and
>>>> etiquette, I probably would have handed him
some toilet paper blithely
>>>> assuming that his dispenser
was empty.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't yet read the
articles linked to earlier - so it's possible it
>>>> was more
than that. But given what the Post said, I can't really accuse
>>>> him of much
myself.
>>>>
>>>>
Paul
>>>>
>>>>
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