[Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Sat Aug 11 14:12:30 PDT 2007
g inquires:
"Is it your contention that since we have law enforcement to look after us I
have no legitimate reason to make provision for my own safety?"
Let me see. Now, how can I say this simply, directly, and avoid any
misunderstanding?
Oh, wait, I've got it. My answer (for the umpteenth time) is . . .
NO!
My contention is, simply, . . .
"How will placing more firearms on the streets reduce violent crimes."
Be advised (and this may, even, come as a surprise), I do support the second
amendment to a degree. I do not believe in handguns. Never will. I do not
believe that a recoilless 50-caliber rifle makes for a very good squirrel
gun.
One can hardly imagine the potential for "overcompensating-for-shortcomings"
discussions at CC Heads of Households fireside chats if everybody were
encouraged to possess firearms.
Let's limit the "mine is bigger than yours" pseudo-macho arguments to pickup
trucks and anatomical fantasies, ok?
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
-----Original Message-----
From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:53 PM
To: Tom Hansen; 'donald huskey'; 'Debbie Gray'; 'Saundra Lund'; 'v2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
Is it your contention that since we have law enforcement to look after us I
have no legitimate reason to make provision for my own safety? By that
standard, since we have a top notch fire department I must not need a fire
extinguisher or a smoke detector. We have a wonderful social security system
set in place by loving and caring democrats, I have no need to save for my
declining years? The idea of letting others look out for me rather than
being self reliant is against everything I was ever taught.
I can imagine numerous different scenarios where one might be called upon to
defend themselves. A better question than the moronic inquiry you present
might be, When has a local CWP holder abused the privilege and engaged in a
drunken gun fight ala the picture you lamely try to present?
g
PS NOT EVEN IN L.A.? Get real. happens every night pal, just not by people
who have the accountability and responsibility of a legally obtained permit.
(which is extraordinarily difficult to obtain in LA) From the LAPD web site
for 2004 (last year available)
Homicides 515
Shooting victims2377
Shots fired 5530 (shots fired by officers not included)
CWP holders convicted of misuse of concealed firearm 0
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; "'donald huskey'"
<donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>; "'Debbie Gray'" <graylex at yahoo.com>; "'Saundra
Lund'" <sslund at roadrunner.com>; "'v2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
>g unsubstantially claims:
>
> "Nobody carries concealed so that they can apprehend shoplifters and
> jaywalkers. They don't carry because they imagine themselves junior cops
> or
> sheriffs deputies. They carry because there are times when harm to that
> person, that person's loved ones, or innocents in his presence are in
> immediate danger and the law enforcement official is many minutes away."
>
> Apparently g's response to himself (or his loved ones or other innocents)
> being inappropriately approached by a drunk is to draw on him with his
> six-shooter.
>
> Kinda redefines "road rage", huh?
>
> NOT EVEN IN LOS ANGELES ! ! !
>
> Please, g. I implore you. Please provide us evidence of a common
> occurrence, here in Vandalville, that would substantiate carrying of a
> firearm.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of g. crabtree
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:46 AM
> To: donald huskey; 'Debbie Gray'; 'Saundra Lund'; 'v2020'
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
>
> Ms. Huskey emotes:
>
> "Like Saundra, I am very concerned that our sheriff believes that carrying
> concealed weapons is an effective way to control crime. It is hard to
> imagine that an untrained, armed civilian on-looker is able to assess and
> react appropriately in any crime situation which involves a loaded gun.
> What
> a recipe for disaster! I hope that knowledgeable folks on this chat group
> will do the necessary research to determine if, on a broader scale, it is
> the position of law enforcement professionals that civilians with
> concealed
> gun permits are a help or a hindrance to them."
>
> Nobody carries concealed so that they can apprehend shoplifters and
> jaywalkers. They don't carry because they imagine themselves junior cops
> or
> sheriffs deputies. They carry because there are times when harm to that
> person, that person's loved ones, or innocents in his presence are in
> immediate danger and the law enforcement official is many minutes away.
> Sheriff Rausch understands this concept and does not expect a qualified
> person to stand idly by and suffer great bodily harm or death so that
> folks
> like you and Ms. Lund can have some spurious sense of well being. Anyone
> who
>
> has been through the training to qualify to carry concealed knows (and I
> do
> mean KNOWS, as it's a concept that's repeated over and over) that if you
> use
>
> your weapon, your life will change drastically and not for the better.
> Even
> if the shot you take is as justified as could possibly be you will be
> second
>
> guessed by the media, law enforcement, and folks such as yourselves. You
> will be sued, and you will be risking incarceration or worse. Even a cop
> or
> a deputy is subject to this. the major difference is that you won't have
> the
>
> resources of a county or municipality to back you up. It will all be on
> you.
>
> When you draw you are making a choice between two really bad options.You
> have to know that the only thing that could make your choice worth while
> is
> an innocent human life, a friends, a family members, or your own was on
> the
> line. As to the opinion of the broader professional law enforcement
> community and their position on CWP's, I couldn't care less. When it's me
> or
>
> my families lives that are in danger they won't be the ones bleeding and
> crying.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "donald huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
> To: "'Debbie Gray'" <graylex at yahoo.com>; "'Saundra Lund'"
> <sslund at roadrunner.com>; "'v2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
>
>
>> Dear Debbie, Saundra and Visionaries:
>>
>> I can't let this thread go by without a few remarks. I have known Debbie
>> and
>> her husband for several years. Debbie and I both worked at the
>> University
>> of Idaho Library, although in different departments. She is smart,
>> funny,
>> and exceptionally nice to work with. I first met her husband when my
>> son,
>> Ben, was a "guest" of the county. At the time, Phil was a jailor. He is
>> an
>> extraordinarily fine law enforcement officer, who combines compassion
>> with
>> professionalism in a noteworthy manner. It is a great loss to the county
>> that Phil is moving from the county to city law enforcement.
>>
>> Saundra Lund is a woman of impeccable integrity. In fact, not that
>> Saundra
>> needs me, or anyone else, to verify her statement, Wayne Rasch denied
>> that
>> Jason Hamilton had a concealed weapon permit. I watched Idaho Dialogue on
>> Idaho Public Television the night that Sheriff Rauch make the remark. I
>> was
>> especially struck by it because I had seen the concealed weapons permit
>> in
>> Jason Hamiltons's court file (it is a public record available at the
>> Court
>> House upon request). Perhaps, as Debbie, suggests, the stress on the
>> sheriff was understandably so great at the time that he forgot or maybe
>> he
>> just didn't know (in which case, it would have been wiser not to make the
>> comment.) Nonetheless, it was a fairly significant "oversight" when one
>> considers the gravity of the crimes Hamilton committed.
>>
>> Like Saundra, I am very concerned that our sheriff believes that carrying
>> concealed weapons is an effective way to control crime. It is hard to
>> imagine that an untrained, armed civilian on-looker is able to assess and
>> react appropriately in any crime situation which involves a loaded gun.
>> What
>> a recipe for disaster! I hope that knowledgeable folks on this chat
>> group
>> will do the necessary research to determine if, on a broader scale, it is
>> the position of law enforcement professionals that civilians with
>> concealed
>> gun permits are a help or a hindrance to them.
>>
>> The unfortunate email sent by Ms. Nieuwsma to her church friends, is
>> indeed
>> a reflection of her remarkable immaturity. The more important question
>> is
>> why such a very young (and I am not referring to her age) woman was hired
>> for a position that requires tact, seasoned judgment, and strong
>> communication skills - none of which are currently within her grasp.
>> Presumably, that hiring decision was made by Sheriff Rauch. This
>> decision
>> does not reflect well on his personal management skills. I frankly don't
>> give a rat's ass if this is her first or last professional position. It
>> is
>> not a good fit. At the very least, she needs to be informed that
>> discussion
>> of religious affiliations is never included in a job search on behalf of
>> a
>> public entity. If, she was not carrying out some official duty in
>> notifying
>> Christ Church members of job openings, I am even more concerned. What
>> assurances, given the chatty tone and adolescent comments in her email,
>> do
>> citizens have that she doesn't share far more "exciting" and confidential
>> information with church members? It wouldn't be unusual for an eighteen
>> year old to enjoy sharing some pretty juicy gossip with a few close
>> friends.
>>
>>
>> I have been to the jail many, many times, both as a visitor and as a
>> literacy teacher. It is not the most pleasant place, I'll agree. But it
>> is
>> not intended to be - it is a jail, not a hotel. Jail Commander, Jim
>> Lloyd,
>> runs a tight ship; for which he should be commended. It is a difficult
>> job.
>> What I have never seen in all my visits (granted, I have never been there
>> in
>> the middle of the night) are jail staff idly sitting around and snacking
>> on
>> jail kitchen food. The implication of Ms. Nieuwsma's email is that this
>> is
>
>> a
>> cushy job with lots of perks and lots of free time to squander. It is
>> exactly the kind of insight I would expect from a teenager who lacks both
>> understanding and appreciation of what grownups do for a living. Her
>> words
>> are (arguably, unintentionally) insulting to the hardworking, underpaid,
>> and
>> certainly underappreciated professional staff. I am surprised and
>> shocked,
>> Debbie, that it appears you are defending her. You know that working in
>> jail is challenging and certainly not a suitable job for a slacker.
>>
>> I am grateful that the Sheriff's position is an elected one. The voters
>> of
>> this county will decide whether or not Wayne Rauch's law enforcement
>> philosophy - including his position on concealed weapons for civilians -
>> budgeting skills, and personal management are admired enough to ensure
>> his
>> re-election.
>>
>> Rose Huskey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of Debbie Gray
>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:19 PM
>> To: Saundra Lund; 'v2020'
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Only Christians Need Apply???
>>
>> Furthermore, while I don't think Chantelle Nieuwsma's
>> email was the best way to tell one's acquaintances
>> about potential job openings, you'd do well to
>> remember that she is only 18 years old and this is
>> most likely her first professional experience. And her
>> first NIGHT of work has got to be the worst 'first day
>> at my new job' story I've ever heard (the night of the
>> courthouse shooting).
>>
>> Lighten up!
>>
>> Debbie Gray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>> ________
>> Need a vacation? Get great deals
>> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>
>
>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list