[Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

[g. crabtree]

Oh my, another attempt at dishonest misdirection. You know full well that it 
would be very easy for me to cut and paste far more positive reviews then 
you could negative and only suggest it because you are well aware no one 
would read them past, maybe, the first.

I note with no small amount of surprise that the negative reviews that you 
mention are generated by one time reviewers while the positive tend to have 
multiple reviews under their belts. Intolerista snipers at work? Perhaps you 
and yer buddies got a little time on your hands?

better luck next time,
g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>; 
"Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest


>> A quick hop over to Amazon reveals that the book "The Fruit of Her Hands" 
>> by
>> Nancy Wilson has garnered FAR more positive reviews than negative. The 
>> same
>> applies to "Her Hand in Marriage" as well as "Reforming Marriage."
>
> Gary --
>
> And why don't you post some of those positive and negative reviews?
> Could it be because they say things like this?
>
> "For a book with such an empowering title for women, it sure doesn't
> give them much credit. This book stresses the message that a woman's
> only calling is to produce children and support her husband
> relentlessly. Wilson seems very frightened of what might happen if she
> so much as disrespects her husband once or isn't there for him enough.
> For example, she advises treating your body like your husband's garden
> so he may enjoy it whenever he pleases and always having your breasts
> available to him because he might be tempted by another woman's
> breasts (this gave me a humorous image of a woman thrusting her chest
> in her husband's face when he glances at another woman). There seems
> to be a note of fear in these words, as though Wilson truly feels a
> husband will stray if he's not constantly reminded that he can have
> sex with his wife.
>
> If Wilson's so concerned about disrespecting men, maybe she should
> consider how disrespectful that presumption of male lust sounds. This
> book has such a negative view of women that it harps on and on about
> how we need men to take care of us because we apparently can't take
> care of ourselves. Both sexes are portrayed badly here; if I couldn't
> take care of myself, I certainly wouldn't want to be in the care of a
> man who needed a constant view of my breasts to keep from straying!
> The book is full of offensive remarks about marriage, particularly the
> claim that it's not a partnership. What does two becoming one mean, if
> not a partnership and a joining together?
>
> The book also preaches that the husband is head of the wife, though
> the usage of the word here is different than the Biblical one.
> Constant comments such as, "you must always refer to your head; your
> head has the final say" imply that Wilson believes women, upon
> marriage, should give up use of their brains and place their husband's
> heads literally on their own shoulders. This goes far beyond loving
> and respecting a husband in a Godly way. I cannot see how people can
> embrace this book, but I'm going to caution women to stay away from
> it; try Liz Curtis Higgs instead.
>
> One final note of interest: inspite of Wilson's many different
> suggestions of how to sexually please your husband (because he might
> get bored if you stick to one way), her own husband, in his book for
> men, says quite plainly that he believes sex is a duty and doesn't
> need spark in order to be pleasing. I wonder if his wife knows
> this?... "
>
> Or, if you prefer a "positive" review, how about this one?
>
> "Its about time someone stood up and told Christian women what being
> married to a Christian man ought to look like. It is a life of
> service, hard work, piety, and submission. There are a lot of books
> written by Christian women out there about marriage that are just weak
> coffee. Nancy Wilson is not afraid of offending anyone. She tells the
> hard truth. My husband thought I would just feel guilty after reading
> this book because Nancy pulls no punches. However, I was totally
> inspired to work harder in my home and to love my husband even more. I
> read this book a few months ago,so I can't go into content. I just
> want to highly recommend this book to any and all Christian women out
> there who want strong content and biblical reasoning in their lives."
>
> For "Her Hand in Marriage," I'll give you a selection of reviews:
>
> "Once again, Wilson simply doesn't get it. His book "Federal Husband"
> was proof enough of his extreme failure to grasp women, but this book
> proves all the more that he's stuck in a time when women and young
> girls were property under the authority of their fathers.
>
> At first glance, this book may seem like a compassionate and loving
> guide to raising children, but it is truly, horribly out of date.
> Parents have the right to control who their children date only as long
> as they are children; once they are adults, they should make decisions
> on their own. I agree that parents are responsible for raising their
> kids in Christian ways, but Wilson's ideas of incredibly controlling
> ways to raise daughters actually repulsed me. He harps over and over
> that a father is in charge of his daughter's virginity, to the point
> where he gave me a mental image of a father guarding his daughter's
> bedroom door 24/7. Why not just advise fathers to put their daughters
> in chastity belts and call it a day? If fathers were truly this
> controlling and actually called themselves the "guards of their
> daughter's virginity", they'd be ordered to get psychiatric treatment
> by a court of law.
>
> Another pet peeve for me was that, in the book, a woman's virginity is
> mentioned far more than a man's, so we're to assume it's worse if a
> girl's not a virgin upon marrying; I'm so sick of this! When are
> people going to realize that God considers a man's sexual purity just
> as important as a woman's? Most offensive, though, was Douglas'
> outrageously sexist statements that women cannot and should not make
> it on their own in the world. He actually says, "Sons are trained for
> independence, whereas daughters are trained to pass from one state of
> dependence to another. Sons leave home; daughters are given." I
> wouldn't have had a problem with this if Wilson was clearly saying
> that this is NOT how it should be, but he was indicating that because
> people in Biblical times treated women like this, they should continue
> to be treated the same way now. Um, wrong; women have jobs now and for
> good reason. One of the reasons I respect my father is that he expects
> me to be just as independent when I leave home as a man would be, and
> rightly so! All the Christian men I know respect independent women.
>
> I also didn't like Wilson's statement that "a man should not worry
> about disrupting a woman's life upon courting her". He went on to say
> that a man who is worried about upsetting a woman's life is not truly
> masculine. Since when is polite concern about HER life and HER plans
> un-masculine? If I were dating a guy and he demanded that I marry him
> right away and drop all my plans for college, I'd give him a flat-out
> no! So would all the other women I know; concern and respect for a
> woman and her ideas are two of the most masculine and mature qualities
> a man could have and Wilson is dead-wrong in discouraging them. I
> suggest he pull his nose out of Biblical times and look around a bit
> at the modern world. The majority of Christians have adapted to the
> changes in the world while still remaining devout; it's about time the
> Wilsons did the same."
>
> Or, again, if you prefer the positive view of the same thing:
>
> "The casualites of recreational dating have mounted in our generation;
> and this book reminds fathers: It is OUR responsibility to lovingly
> protect our daughters. Their purity rests with us. I urge every Dad
> who loves their little pumpkin the way I love mine to get this
> book...Learn the Biblical mandate well, when she is young. She'll love
> you, and thank you for it during the teenage years;and especially in
> marriage.Peter Hyatt, Copiague, New York."
>
> Or how about you read the goddamn books yourself, like I did, rather
> than taking the Cliff's Notes version from someone with an axe to
> grind? It's bizarrely deceptive of you to airily claim that "oh, there
> were more positive than negative reviews" without mentioning the fact
> that the content of those reviews validates pretty much exactly what I
> said.
>
> -- ACS
>