[Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

[Saundra Lund]

Hi Again Paul,

Thanks for continuing the discussion, and I apologize for my delay in
responding.  It's summer  :-)

I'd like to clarify, if I might, that my comments were more of a general
nature than addressing the specific Trinity Fest protest, about which I
really didn't know much at all:  I don't know who organized it, although I
certainly agree with the ideas expressed in the flyer Rose quoted on her
blog; and I don’t know who participated or why the night of 8/3 was chosen.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way . . . 

I guess I look at things differently than you seem to:  I *do* think this
community needs to stand strong against the lunacy of the Christ Church
hierarchy and their worldview, including how they want to remake our local
community.

While Christ Church may be happy about the image of our community they've
managed to create, it's not an illusion that's appreciated by much of the
community, and by much of the rest of the country.  Indeed, I think the
illusion is worse than simply not positive -- it's actually harmful for this
community.  Good people express hesitation about moving themselves -- and
their families -- here for jobs or to start businesses because Christ Church
has made this community look like one where racism, sexism, homophobia,
religious intolerance, and a whole host of other evils are "accepted" by the
community.

Regardless of how "silly" anyone thinks it, we have credible reports from
unbiased WSU faculty that some students are afraid to come to Moscow because
of the carefully cultivated image Christ Church has propagated about Moscow.

I personally have talked to potential UI students who opted not to come here
because of the Christ Church image problem.

And, I know a wide variety of people who are less comfortable living here
since the Kirk's agenda to control the community has become apparent in
spite of the attempted double-speak by those in the Kirk.

In part, you wrote:
"I would be condemned to death if their biblical society ever came to be
because of my past studying of the occult and because I'm not a professing
Christian.  Yet, they aren't pushing for laws to do that."

Again, I guess we have different thresholds.  I see that they *do* push for
laws to make this community, this state, and this nation conform to their
worldview.  They were outraged by a silly top-free carwash a few years back,
so they threatened and protested and coerced our elected officials to get
female breasts criminalized here.  In the process, Moscow, Idaho made
national (and international) news as a laughingstock.  A lot of time,
energy, and money was expended by local government to placate the Kirk and
their threats, and as a result, one of the most restrictive -- and likely
unconstitutional -- laws in the nation was put on our local books in 2002,
helped in no small part by their stealth council member.  AFAIK, the law has
yet to be enforced in spite of the fact that virtually every day this
summer, and most days the rest of the year, I've seen clear violations of
the ordinance.  Yeah, Moscow, is sooo much safer since the Kirk forced that
law through, isn't it?  That was a *great* use of scarce resources just to
appease a very small but vocal minority.  You can blame the City officials
if you want (there's plenty of blame to go around, something I hope people
won't forget with the upcoming elections and some of the names we're likely
to see as candidates), but the blame also rightly belongs with those who got
their shorts in a twist and organized to force the rest of us to kowtow to
their desires:  the Kirk.

They actively supported of Prop. 1 in 1994, which failed.  They actively
supported the Anti-Marriage Amendment last year, which passed.  They've run
local stealth candidates, some of whom won, some of whom lost.  They -- and
their children -- have picketed local businesses and filed criminal and
zoning complaints and boycotted businesses with which they disagree.  Please
note:  these ***actions*** were *not* those only of the hierarchy but also
by "regular" Kirk members and their children.

With all due respect, Paul, I think you are making a mistake the Kirk
depends on the uninformed tolerant amongst us making:  you fail to take
their stated objectives at face value.  According to the Kirk, things like
feminism, abortion, and homosexuality are clear symptoms (or perhaps causes)
of the moral decay in our community, and in our nation, and as Jesus'
soldiers, they have a duty to rid our community of those "evils" using any
and all methods -- no matter how dishonest and/or despicable -- at their
disposal.  If that means lying to civil authorities, so be it.  This
***isn't*** belief we're talking about, these are concrete actions and
concrete attacks on our community.

I don't know if you've ever been pointed in this direction before, but in
case you've not, I recommend you take a bit of time to read Jim Wilson's
_Principles of War A Handbook on Strategic Evangelism_.  Luckily, it's
freely available online and is a very quick read:
http://www.ccmbooks.org/onlinebooks/pow/index.htm

Then please think about what you read in light of Doug Wilson's comments
from the pulpit on 12-28-2003:

"In the 60s my father wrote a small but enormously influential book called
The Principles of War.  In it he applied the principle of physical warfare
to what he calls strategic evangelism.  This idea of warfare is necessary in
order to understand a central part of what is happening here, and by this I
mean the concept of the decisive point.  A decisive point is one which is
simultaneously strategic and feasible.  Strategic means that it would be a
significant loss to the enemy if taken.  Feasible means that it’s possible
to take.  New York City is strategic but not feasible; Bovil is feasible but
not strategic.  But small towns with major universities, Moscow and Pullman,
say, are both.  Now, this explains why the conflict is here.”

The Kirk -- not this community -- started the conflict *here* and continues
the conflict *here.*  They rely on our genuine tolerance -- and our inertia
-- to allow them remake this community into what *they* want.

You also wrote:
"Now, as has been pointed out to me, if people have protested the officials
in Moscow that appeared to allow the rules to be bent or broken and nothing
has come of it - then what do you do?  I say, whatever you do, leave the
individual Christ Church members alone unless you are talking about the guys
that make the decisions there.  Take up your fight, again, with the powers
that be in Moscow.  Talk to the press (again)."

Quite frankly, I had a lot more sympathy for the rank-and-file members of
the Kirk until they actively became a part of the Conspiracy of Silence.
Since then, my respect for their autonomy requires that I hold them
accountable as well.

I want to clarify that it's not just *Moscow* city officials who've allowed
the Kirk hierarchy to get away with their shenanigans.  I find it hilarious
-- but also sad -- what skids can be greased with a the gift of a bottle of
wine or two or three coupled by a wolf in sheep's clothing saying "We're
local Christians -- we'd never do you wrong."

What to do?  Well, one thing is to NOT sit by an allow the shenanigans to
continue.  People need to speak up loudly and often and in a variety of
venues . . . including the Trinity Fest if they so wish.

Elected officials are one matter.  Clearly we've got too many of them who
were never taught, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on
*me*."  Personally, I think it will be interesting to watch how the Moscow
City Council handles the whole "cathedral" notion -- if you want a real
hoot, go back and read the minutes for the rezoning process.  I'll
definitely be thinking about accountability when I vote, both for those who
decided to let that rezoning go through with no restrictions in spite of
their own reservations and concerns *and* for those who were STUPIDLY
blinded by the empty assurances of "developers.".

However, staff present a whole other challenge.  They have no direct
accountability to citizens, so we can't vote them out when we see them being
snookered -- or worse -- time and again by those "nice Christ Church
people."  For some, I really think it incomprehensible to them that they are
dealing with bald-faced liars who will stoop to any level imaginable to
manipulate staff to get the Kirk's way.

So, you chose to not protest the Trinity Fest, and that's your prerogative.
But, really, it's offensive to me and rather presumptuous of you to chastise
others for exercising their legitimate First Amendment rights just because
you aren't moved at this moment to do so.

Was this sad little performance at the Kenworthy a right time to protest the
Kirk's desire to remake Moscow?  I didn't think so, but it's not up to me --
or to you -- to determine when and where others can speak out about what
they find repugnant and dangerous.

I was happy to hear that Mikey's Gyros apparently offered a free showing of
Michael Hayes' documentary _My Town_ during Trinity Fest  :-)

Sorry this went on for so long, but I do appreciate the dialogue.  I
sometimes wonder, though, what it's going to take to wake people up?  I
personally am not willing to wait until  "they ever start trying to pass
laws that state that heathens or gays or adulterers should be executed," as
you seem to suggest, to register my STRONG objection to their stated desires
and definite actions to remake this community to suit their worldview.
While some people laugh at the notion, I surely don't want anything like
what happened in Antelope-Rajneesh-Antelope, OR to happen here.  No, it's
much better, IMHO, to fight the evil before it becomes law and for this
community to make it CLEAR that we will not allow our community to be
morphed to reflect their decidedly ungodly worldview.

Actions may speak louder than words, and in the case of the Kirk, we have
plenty of both from its hierarchy to see what their real agenda is.


JMHO,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:22 AM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: 'Bill London'; 'v2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

Saundra,

I admit that I don't like that they can apparently do as they wish downtown.
I don't know if they have the right people as part of their church, or if
they have some kind of influence they shouldn't have.  Maybe the rules
aren't as clear-cut as we'd like to think and they are simply using existing
loopholes.  I don't know.  

I also disagree with not only their theology but their idea that they are
above the law.  That's one of the dangers of organized religion of any type.
When you have God on your side, or so you think, you tend to think you are
special.  I would be condemned to death if their biblical society ever came
to be because of my past studying of the occult and because I'm not a
professing Christian.  Yet, they aren't pushing for laws to do that.  So
it's just talk.

It's a case of "hate the sin, love the sinner".  The individual Christ
Church members, especially those that aren't elders, should be treated with
the respect due anyone else.  What I'm objecting to here, I've come to
realize, is barging in on their festival.  You have lots of kind people (at
least the ones I've met), simply having fun.  They have their families
there, their children are playing together, etc.  Why target them with this
protest?  Let them have their fun.  

Now, as has been pointed out to me, if people have protested the officials
in Moscow that appeared to allow the rules to be bent or broken and nothing
has come of it - then what do you do?  I say, whatever you do, leave the
individual Christ Church members alone unless you are talking about the guys
that make the decisions there.  Take up your fight, again, with the powers
that be in Moscow.  Talk to the press (again).

Just make sure that it's their undue influence that you are protesting and
not their theological beliefs.  They have the right to believe as they wish,
it's their actions that have to be looked at.  If they ever start trying to
pass laws that state that heathens or gays or adulterers should be executed,
then I'll be right beside you to fight it.

Paul

Saundra Lund wrote: 

	Hi Paul & Visionaries:

	 

	<sigh>  It's a good question, but I sometimes feel like people
haven't been paying attention over the last few years.

	 

	I'm a Christian, and I absolutely do *not* agree with the Kirk's . .
. theology.  I don't believe in forced salvation (if they can't win us over
by conversion, then they want the teeth of the law to force the rest of us
to act/behave as they think we ought to behave), and it really disturbs me
the way God's word has been perverted by Kirk hierarchy. 

	 

	However, IMHO, of larger concern is the Kirk hierarchy’s refusal to
follow the "secular" rules and laws the rest of us are expected to follow.
The rules are for others, not for them.  Lying under oath -- no problem.
Lying to government officials -- again, no problem.  Thumbing their noses at
planning and zoning regulations -- absolutely no problem.  Failing to live
up to the very limited requirements of tax exemption – they excel at that.
Parking where they have no right -- no problem.  Withholding information
vital to the safety of our community’s children – absolutely no problem.
And on and on and on the list goes.  In essence, while there are wonderful
individual Kirk members, Christ Church itself has proven time and again that
it is the quintessential Bad Neighbor.

	 

	My dear friend Rose Huskey blogged on this very topic recently --
you might want to read what she had to say:

	http://cleaning-house.org/?p=591

	 

	I'm sure she won't mind if I repost here:

	"Nests of Pests

	 

	Temperatures in Moscow hover in the 90’s during the dog days of
August but that’s not why many community members are boiling. For the past
three years we have endured the civic embarrassment generated by the
pseudo-Ceilidh, pseudo-Calvinistic jamboree known as the Trinity Fest.
Members of the Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals aka CREC, view Moscow
as their Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca, and Ganges River. They gather in August to
sit at the knee of Massa Doug Wilson, (the brains behind the beards)
greedily ingesting the racist, sexist, homophobic preaching disgorged from
his pie hole. It has been my habit to refrain from going to town during the
week that Doug attempts to claim Moscow as his papal seat. However, this
year I will join with friends to acquaint (or reacquaint as the case may be)
CREC visitors and Kirk members with long-standing community values. Flyers
have been posted throughout downtown Moscow and in the windows of supportive
businesses asking folks to:

	 

	[T]ake a stand for traditional American values of tolerance and
diversity as we gather to voice our collective community opposition to the
racist, sexist, homophobic agenda of Christ Church, New St. Andrews College,
The Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches and the Association of
Classical and Christian Schools.

	 

	Uninformed readers might (mistakenly) believe that it is, at best,
ironic to take a stand for tolerance and diversity while simultaneously
opposing a “religious” celebration. The following analogy might help to
clarify my position. Suppose you wake up one fine morning and notice - in a
dark corner of your closet - a sweet little nest of spiders. On the whole
you like spiders (Charlotte’s Web was your favorite childhood book), so you
adopt a live and let live attitude toward the little critters. Five or six
days later you have an opportunity to take a closer look at mama spider. She
is a glossy black color, and son of a gun, has a red hour glass on her
belly. This is not what you had in mind when you believed your closet was
big enough for you and the spiders, was it? An apathetic reaction is not in
your best interest. Silently acquiescing to bigotry is as risky and stupid
as deliberately sharing your closet with black widow spiders. And while the
Brotherhood of the Kirk always exacts a price from their critics the cost of
going along to get along is much too high for me.

	 

	Rose”

	 

	 

	HTH,

	Saundra Lund
	Moscow, ID
	
	The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
to do nothing.
	- Edmund Burke
	
	***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through
life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or
reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****

	 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
	Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:19 PM
	To: Bill London
	Cc: v2020
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

	 

	Doesn't freedom of religion trump simple dislike for the church or
some of it's members?  If there are irregularities with how they were
granted permits or something, then that should be looked into.  But why
disturb their festival?  What is their political and economic agendas that
these activists are protesting?  

	 

	Granted, people have a right to protest as long as they keep it
civil and follow the law.  It's just that I have never understood why people
are so opposed to them.  Most of the objections I've heard have to do with
zoning laws and permits for the NSA school.  That sounds like a problem with
the authorities and not Christ Church.  There are lots of comments about
their theology (Southern slavery, odd ideas about how they think a
"biblical" society would work, etc), but so what?  They have every right to
believe as they wish, whether or not I think the lot of them have been
standing too long in the hot sun with no hat.

	 

	I don't agree theologically with them at all.  But who am I to try
to tell them they can't expand themselves?

	 

	I have great respect for you all as community leaders, I just think
you going too far sometimes.

	 

	Paul