[Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
Joe Campbell
joekc at adelphia.net
Wed Aug 8 15:38:11 PDT 2007
Certainly, this is a popular view among Christians, Roger, but it is not the Kirk view. Likely more than just the Kirk disagree with this view, though.
--
Joe Campbell
---- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
=============
I am not a biblical scholar so am out of my league here. I have read the entire King James version. From what I remember homosexuality was dealt with harshly and slavery was tolerated in the Old Testament. I though that these were viewed differently in the New Testament. Basically there was a change from a rathful god to a benevolent one. Again I am out of my league here.
This is in answer to several other posts that have been made. I also like the comments made by Paul.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 14:29:38 -0700
To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
> If anyone is interested in some documents supporting the claim that members of the Kirk believe that slavery is biblically justified, please let me know offlist. Likewise for claims about the biblical justification of the death penalty for gay sex. Likely, there are other links where Wilson says something different, as Crabtree has shown.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> =============
> Ms. Mix piously proclaims:
>
> "Christ Church has been, on the one hand, terribly reticent to discuss its views on the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and the like, and yet, on the other hand, quite proud of its call for such in the pages of Credenda/Agenda."
>
> This is complete and utter hogwash, a classic case of tell the lies often enough, loud enough, and with adequate doe eyed sincerity and it will, hopefully, they will become fact.
>
> Before swallowing Mix, Campbell, Schou, and others of their ilk's breathless assertions one would be well advised to go to the source and review what has actually been said. Since Ms. Mix mentions Credenda/Agenda one might do well to start there. Please see Volume 16 number 2. The entire issue is devoted to the topic and nowhere will you see any evidence of the claims made by CC's usual antagonists. After dealing with that disappointment one might go to Doug Wilson's own personnel blog and read entries on 06/01/05 and 08/30/05, the latter specifically and in detail speaking to the ridiculous notion expressed by our resident propagandists. And finally for the reading challenged, one can listen to Wilson in his very own voice speak to the topic on the Cannon Press CD "The Sin of Homophobia" lecture C 03/31/04.
>
> Ms. Mix must be using Campbell's lexicon in which "pretty much" means not at all and determined that "terribly reticent to discuss" equals speaks to the subject exhaustively. Didn't Orwell have a name for this?
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: keely emerinemix
> To: lfalen ; Joe Campbell
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
>
>
> No, Roger, that's what most Christian churches say.
>
> Christ Church has been, on the one hand, terribly reticent to discuss its views on the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and the like, and yet, on the other hand, quite proud of its call for such in the pages of Credenda/Agenda. Perhaps you ought to ask Greg Dickison, Esq., a Christ Church attender, C/A writer, and attorney, on his thoughts regarding "love the sinner, hate the sin."
>
> Because my eye shall not pity those who refuse to believe that this group not only believes these things, but is less than honest in acknowledging it as well. And if you wonder about the odd phrasing of "my eye shall not pity," well, gee -- maybe Mr. Dickison could explain it to you.
>
> keely
>
>
>
> "Were I to be again reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me. For of all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders re the worst. I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and cowardly, of all others. It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to a religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such religionists." Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former slave
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:45:30 -0700
> > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> > To: joekc at adelphia.net
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
> >
> > Joe
> > There is a difference between saying that it is bibiblically justified and saying that they recommend it in today's society.
> > My understanding is that they think it is a sin but also say hate the sin, love the sinner.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
> > Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:55:20 -0700
> > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
> >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > Maybe you missed Andreas's last post, which makes the point clearer.
> > > He writes (to Gary):
> > >
> > > "I just find it utterly, gobsmackingly amazing, Gary, that you would
> > > demand the admittance of people who espouse killing gays into a
> > > gay-focused club. I don't think that warrants any more than a single
> > > sentence."
> > >
> > > Don't you think that there is reason to exclude a group which as explicitly
> > > admitted that the killing of gays and lesbians is biblically justified from a
> > > meeting run by gays and lesbians?
> > >
> > > How much threatening abuse should this group have to tolerate, on your
> > > understanding of rights?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Joe Campbell
> > >
> > > ---- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > =============
> > > Andreas
> > > You are trying to compare apples and orange. A private club operating on private property and supported by private funds can admit or prohibit anyone they want. A group that is sponsored by a government enity, meets on government property, and is supported by taxpayers should be open to anyone who wants to attend, so long as they are not disruptive. Just being present is not disruptive.They obviously can not vote on any issue unless they are members. They can speak if recognized by the chair.
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: "Andreas Schou" ophite at gmail.com
> > > Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:24:31 -0700
> > > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest
> > >
> > > > > Two standards? Yes for two distinctly different situations.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, I see, Gary. So, for instance, you would be in favor of this
> > > > Christian fraternity being forced to admit Jews, Muslims, atheists, et
> > > > al.
> > > >
> > > > http://chronicle.com/news/article/2666/christian-fraternity-sues-u-of-florida-over-denial-of-recognition
> > > >
> > > > Right? Because that's what would be consistent, right?
> > > >
> > > > -- ACS
> > > >
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