[Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News

Sat Apr 14 17:19:55 PDT 2007

How Wal-Mart Came to Haslett, Michigan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1cmKqEbJBs

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007) 

  _____  

From: Mark Solomon [mailto:msolomon at moscow.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:57 PM
To: Donovan Arnold; Tom Hansen; mattd2107 at hotmail.com; thansen at moscow.com;
lfalen at turbonet.com; jampot at adelphia.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News

Donovan,

I don't have time right now to dig out the original cite, but the research
that has been done suggests strongly that rather than drawing new customers
to old malls located by new big box developments they instead are their
death knell. Newer, shinier, prettier, more "hip", etc: the attributes of
consumer culture apply to architectural space as well as personal buying
choices.

I was here when the Moscow Mall opened and you're absolutely correct.. it's
been a dud since day one when it opened almost simultaneously with the
Palouse Mall. As you say, location is everything and being closer to the
Pullman consumer is a winner for the Palouse mall. It is why I support
development, if it is going to occur, on the 40 acres already zoned for
motor business behind the Palouse mall. Depending on the type of businesses
contemplated there, water could be an issue, but it is one that we can
address as a community. Moscow residents have reduced their water demand by
about 15% in the past two years in response to the call for water
conservation. The City is actively exploring alternative water sources.
Assuming those actions continue we can as a community decide to spend some
of the water capital we've saved on other uses.

m.

At 3:44 PM -0700 4/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:

Mark,

If you built the best mall on the far side of the moon would it get much
business? Location is is everything in business and the Eastside Mall
doesn't have much of one. That mall would be bumpin though if a Super
Wal-Mart was put across the street.

You should have seen that mall when it was the Moscow Mall. You could have
fired a cannon down the center of it and not killed a soul.

Best,

Donovan

And that somehow explains the, ahem, "under-occupancy rate" at the Eastside
Mall?

m.

At 2:43 PM -0700 4/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:

Tom,

Businesses went under in the Palouse Mall because the Mall owners raised the
rent really high so many left. A new mall will create competition and serve
as a check on the lease prices. Also, the mall kicked out many smaller
businesses that are locally owned in favor of big chain stores. Market Time
Gifts was one forced out. The mall owners won't even let Book People in
there.

It would be nice to have a mall that supports local business owners and
counters the over inflated rent prices.  This is the free market at work.
One guy jacks his rates to the roof, so another builds one for cheaper.

Best,

Donovan

Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com> wrote:

Building more malls is NOT the answer. How many businesses have come and
gone from the Palouse Mall? And your answer is to build another mall?

That reminds me of a joke:

John and Jerry were buying widgets from a manufacturing warehouse at a
dollar each. To develop and exapnd a customer base they decided to undercut
their competition by selling their widgets at 80 cents a piece.

Sure enough, customers were flocking to get more and more widgets from John
and Jerry. John realized that the more widgets the customers purchased, the
more widgets John and Jerry had to buy from the manufacturing warehouse.
Joh also realized that somehow they were losing money on this venture. John
approached Jerry and asked him what could be done to avoid further loss.
Jerry's response was, "Simple. We will get a larger truck."

Like John and Jerr's predicament, building another mall here in Moscow will
not solve anything.

We need to expand on career-oriented, professional jobs. As more and more
people move to Moscow seeking professional employment in a career-oriented
job, the more appealing another mall will be for retailers who will be
targeting more than just the college-age customer.

Tom Hansen

>From: "Matt Decker"
>To: thansen at moscow.com, donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, msolomon at moscow.com,

> lfalen at turbonet.com, jampot at adelphia.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News
>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:18:40 -0700
>
>Tom,
>
>I do agree conservation and prevention should be on all our minds. Not just
>water, but also electricity, fossil fuels, and such.
>
>What I can't foresee, is why a company would want to move here. We have
>very little to offer. Very limited businesses, resturaunts, shopping areas,
>etc.
>
>I don't see how adding a costco, olive garden, red lobster, old navy, and
>whatever else comes into mind will kill our "perfect" little town. We could
>stand to grow a little without taking away the soul of our great little
>community.
>
>All of these will help draw in the bussiness types we would all hope for.
>With this current Mayor and council nothing will happen. She will focus on
>getting rid of poeple who oppose her. Instead of worrying about a $134,000
>fine we have now received from the feds. Along with keeping/seeking a
>conservation driven growth policy. Something that is very possible with our
>technology.
>
>Meantime, we lose bigtime money from our neighbors who seem to get it.
>Moscow and Pullman need to both thrive for conservation.
>
>Matt
>
>
>>From: "Tom Hansen"
>>To: "'Matt Decker'" ,
>>, ,
>>, ,
>>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News
>>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:28:24 -0700
>>
>>I have no problem with housing development. As Moscow expands housing
>>development becomes an absolute necessity. Tacking on another
>>mega-shopping
>>center isn't.
>>
>>We have enough shopping malls to support the population of Moscow (as well
>>as Pullman). What we need is expansion of career-oriented professions

>>here
>>in Vandalville. More shelf-stockers and fast-food egg flippers merely
>>doesn't fit the bill.
>>
>>As professional, career-oriented jobs develop and grow in Moscow, more
>>students will opt to stick around after graduation. Housing developments
>>will increase along with the tax base.
>>
>>Until we can calculate just how much water remains in the aquifer, we must
>>assume a defensive posture.
>>
>>If not, what will we do when the faucets run dry?
>>
>>Tom Hansen
>>Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
>>students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>
>>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matt Decker [mailto:mattd2107 at hotmail.com]
>>Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:08 AM
>>To: thansen at moscow.com; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; msolomon at moscow.com;
>>lfalen at turbonet.com; jampot at adelphia.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>>You stated"If we allow unlimited
>> >use of the aquifer by corporate "gluttons", it will disappear and our
>> >citizens will suffer. We must restrict access to our limited water
>> >sources
>> >until another source is identified and put into use."
>>
>>So are suggesting that we stop all houses being built? Maybe even a high
>>tech industrial baised company moving into Moscow? All this while Pullman
>>catapults itself way ahead of us, and continues to drill new wells which
>>draw from the same water source. Thus drawing more business, residents,
>>and
>>tax revenue, most of which is beneficial to the area. Granted, some such
>>as
>>a Walmart I could go without. Along with growth would become more problems
>>too. However, the ending result will most likely create a better community
>>with more options.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>> >From: "Tom Hansen"
>> >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" , "'Mark
>> >Solomon'" , "'lfalen'"
>>,
>>
>> > "'g. crabtree'" ,
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News
>> >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:05:17 -0700
>> >
>> >Arnold stated:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Mr. Solomon's ideas are not based on economic realities and don't solve
>> >the
>> >water problem, it just prolongs it."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >So, you are admitting that there is a water problem. If we allow
>>unlimited
>> >use of the aquifer by corporate "gluttons", it will disappear and our

>> >citizens will suffer. We must restrict access to our limited water
>> >sources
>> >until another source is identified and put into use.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Arnold goes on . . .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Thinking we shouldn't have stocking and service orientated jobs for
>> >students I think is a bad idea. First, those lower paying jobs should go
>>to
>> >college students, not 40 year olds trying to make a living; somebody has
>>to
>> >ask, "Would you like fries with that?" And I don't think it should be
>> >people
>> >middle aged with Master's in Environmental Science."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Our community NEEDS career-oriented, professional jobs if it is to
>>compete.
>> >If Moscow were to limit its growth to those minimum-wage,
>>service-oriented
>> >jobs you reference, those 10,000 college students (referenced by Dale
>> >Courtney below) will simply graduate and move on to greener pastures
>>away
>> >from Moscow.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Question: What 40 year olds and local residents "with Master's in
>> >Environmental Science" are you aware of that are hold these jobs at fast
>> >food outlets? I have lived here in Moscow for 15 years. All I have
>>seen
>> >are college students working at local fast food restaurants (as well as
>> >bartenders at my favorite haunts).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Tom Hansen
>> >
>> >Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
>> >students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>> >
>> >- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>> >
>>
>>
>> >=======================================================
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>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >=======================================================
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today.
>>http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

>=======================================================
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>=======================================================

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