[Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
Craine Kit
kcraine at verizon.net
Fri Apr 6 10:03:17 PDT 2007
I was at the same meeting and this is the gist of what happened. The
gentleman who stated he couldn't hear was in the front row. I was in
the second about two chairs away from him and was also having trouble
hearing. The audience was being quiet and polite until the request to
speak louder was flat-out refused.
Kit Craine
On Apr 5, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> It's been awhile, but I'm happy to share what I recall with the
> hope that
> others at the meeting with perhaps with better recollection might also
> share.
>
> The current Council member to whom I'm referring is Bill Lambert,
> who was at
> the time on the City of Moscow's Planning and Zoning Commission.
> Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact date of the meeting, but I
> believe
> it was in the summer of 2005, and it might have been during the
> meeting on
> 7/13/2005.
>
> There was quite a decent turnout for the P&Z meeting, and I
> remember Chair
> Jerry Schutz commenting on how pleased he was to see so many people
> take an
> interest in P&Z. IIRC, he said they weren't used to having an
> audience, or
> at least, such a large audience.
>
> My recollection is that the Commission members were originally
> seated around
> a table on the floor (where the Council Administrative and Public
> Works &
> Finance Committees sit), but it seems to me they readjusted
> themselves to
> sit on only three sides before the meeting actually started as more
> people
> showed up.
>
> I also recall that the microphones weren't being used at that point.
>
> IIRC, I was seated about four or maybe five rows back, and Mr.
> Schutz asked
> if everyone could hear what was being said. More than a few people
> indicated they were having difficulty hearing, and I believe Mr.
> Schutz said
> something about they'd try to remember to keep their voices up and
> to let
> them know if voices dropped.
>
> At least some voices were kept up for a bit, and some commissioners
> did
> better at this than others. Mr. Lambert was speaking, and a gentleman
> seated in the first or second row (IIRC) raised his hand to
> indicate that he
> couldn't hear what was being said. I believe Mr. Schutz verified
> that the
> gentleman's hand was raised because he couldn't hear, and more than
> a few
> others (myself included) indicated that we couldn't hear Mr. Lambert's
> comments, either. Mr. Schutz again asked the commissioners to
> remember to
> keep their voices up, and I believe the discussion continued
> briefly before
> Mr. Lambert again couldn't be heard and the gentleman again raised
> his hand
> and said something like, "Can you please speak UP? I still can't
> hear you."
>
> At which point Mr. Lambert became overtly hostile, defensive and
> downright
> rude, and he said something like he was speaking as loudly as he
> was going
> to speak and he wasn't going to yell to be heard. Mind you, the
> audience
> was appropriately orderly, so it's not like people talking in the
> gallery
> were the cause. There was a bit more to Mr. Lambert's rant, but I
> was so
> aghast I don't recall further specifics other than there was *no
> difficulty*
> hearing what he was saying then, so clearly Mr. Lambert was capable of
> making himself heard when he wanted to.
>
> At that point, the gentleman got up to leave, saying something
> like, "Public
> meetings don't do any good if the public can't hear" as he left. I
> think it
> was clear to all present that the gentleman wasn't happy, and my
> eyebrows
> weren't the only ones raised at Mr. Lambert's reprehensible behavior.
>
> My recollection is that this all happened within the first 15
> minutes or so
> of the meeting, but again, it was almost two years ago.
>
> I was absolutely stunned by Mr. Lambert's tirade. I've been to a
> lot of
> government meetings in my life, and outside some in the UK, and I'd
> never
> seen anything quite like Mr. Lambert's attack on those who couldn't
> make out
> his mumbling. Quite frankly, his conduct was inappropriate, he was
> disrespectful to his fellow commissioners and to the audience, and his
> behavior was an embarrassment to the City he was appointed to
> represent.
> Not only was the gentleman who was the target of Mr. Lambert's rant
> due an
> apology, but so, too, were the rest of us present. However, none was
> forthcoming at that meeting or any of the subsequent P&Z meetings I
> attended.
>
> I'll also interject that the gentleman was only one of *many* who were
> having difficulty hearing the meeting. People sitting closer than
> I were
> having difficulty, people sitting in the same row I was were having
> trouble,
> and people seated further back were all having trouble hearing.
>
> After the gentleman left, my recollection is that the commissioners
> relocated to dais (where the City Council sits) and the microphones
> were
> turned on. Interestingly -- or not -- members of the audience
> continued to
> have some difficulty making out what Mr. Lambert said because
> microphones
> don't do much good if they aren't spoken into.
>
> Mr. Lambert created such a spectacle of himself I'll not soon
> forget it.
> And, it's really too bad he didn't have the good sense to simply
> apologize
> as others have done -- were it not for his arrogance and had he
> done the
> right thing by apologizing, he might well have gotten one of my
> votes for
> City Council. As it is, I'll always remember his inappropriate public
> behavior, his poor judgment, and his tendency to fly off the handle
> with
> little or no provocation; none of those are qualities I want in my
> elected
> officials.
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
> to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through
> life plus
> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or
> reproduce outside
> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
> author.*****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Solomon [mailto:msolomon at moscow.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 1:56 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>
> Saundra,
>
> For those of us who are only hearing of this for the first time,
> could you elaborate a bit more?
>
> thank you,
>
> m.
>
> At 10:48 AM -0700 4/5/07, Saundra Lund wrote:
>> Perhaps one or the other can replace the current Council member
>> who, when
>> serving on a commission, thought those in the audience didn't need
>> to hear
>> what was being discussed in the public meeting by the commission
>> members
> and
>> who, in fact, was INCREDIBLY RUDE to an elderly man who requested
>> the board
>> members speak up so they could be heard.
>>
>> It was my opinion that had more Moscow citizens been at that
>> meeting -- or
>> if videos of those meetings were available or had that meeting
>> been covered
>> by the press (assuming we had a real newspaper, which we don't
>> appear to
>> have) -- that particular current Council member never would have been
>> elected. It was one of the more shameful displays I've ever seen
>> in a
>> public meeting :-(((
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
>> people to do
>> nothing.
>> - Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through
>> life
> plus
>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> outside
>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>> author.*****
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-
>> bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of lfalen
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:04 AM
>> To: g. crabtree; Matt Decker; privatejf32 at hotmail.com;
> vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>
>> Decker and Crabtree for City Council
>>
>> Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "g. crabtree" jampot at adelphia.net
>> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:53:23 -0700
>> To: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com, privatejf32 at hotmail.com,
>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>
>>> Matt is very much correct on this one. Our current city council
>>> has made
>>> nothing but bad decisions ever since it came into power. Our
>>> Mayor is
> more
>>
>>> interested in surrounding herself with an fawning group of yes
>>> men than
>>> doing what it takes to make Moscow grow and prosper.
>>>
>>> I challenge "J. Ford" to tell the rest of us on this list what
>>> it might
>> have
>>> been that would make giving the boot to a community minded
>>> volunteer
> with
>>> over 15 years of experience in what was often a thankless job a
>> ppropriate.
>>> Was it the fact that he would occasionally limit statements
>>> before the
>> board
>>> to a prescribed time limit? Our illustrious mayor does that at
>>> every
>> council
>>> meeting. I fail to see how it becomes an issue worthy of removal in
>>> Wheaton's case.
>>>
>>> While you're at it, how about a few examples of the BOA
>>> benefiting a few
>>> special interests to the detriment of the rest of the town. Just
>>> exactly
>>> what segment of the community has been neglected by previous
>>> decisions?
> A
>>> few concrete examples as opposed to the usual vague blather
>>> would be
>>> extremely helpful.
>>>
>>> Anybody want to bet that the only note of what should be a
>>> symphony (to
>> hear
>>> her tell it) will be sung to the tune of "NSA/CC/Doug Wilson is
>>> a rat
>>> bastard doo dah, doo dah. Does nothing right, does all things
>>> wrong, oh
>> the
>>> doo dah day?
>>>
>>> g
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>
>>>
>>>> J,
>>>>
>>>> I highly doubt the "whole" town wants a man of 15 years to be
>>>> fired.
>>>>
>>>> Plaskon and Wheaton being asked to leave, is highly suspicious and
>>>> deserves
>>>> an answer. As far as I know, or have heard "she" has yet to tell
>>>> why
>> "she"
>>>> wanted John to leave, along with Joel.
>>>>
>>>> Whats next? Lambert or Webber? Anybody that wants to start a
>> development?
>>>>
>>>> The problem is we need a council that is willing to stand by the
> rules,
>>>> enforcing those principles entrusted onto us, but also
>>>> installing an
>>>> agenda
>>>> that thrives on a growth rich conservation based city/county.
>>>> Problems
>>>> which
>>>> have caused conflict throughout the city for years.
>>>>
>>>> This council, driven by Chaney, has done nothing for this town.
>>>> Time
> for
>> a
>>>> change.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:42:36 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joel WAS suggested to resign. Same diff, I suppose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, for years people have been saying it was time for him
>>>>> to go.
>> The
>>>>> fact that his decisions are being looked at and in some cases
>>>>> reversed
>> or
>>>>> canceled, I'd say others within City Hall feel the same way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I like Nancy? Nope - but at least she's trying to do what
>>>>> is best
>> for
>>>>> the WHOLE town, not just a few who have had their hands in the
>>>>> till
> for
>>>>> far
>>>>> too long. Like everything else, time will tell as to whether
>>>>> or not
> her
>>>>> decisions and their decisions worked out for the best or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The end.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> J :]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:27:06 -0700
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about Joel Plaskon? Was it his time to go too? I'll bet
>>>>>> you'll
> say
>>>>>> yes(oh ya he resigned most likely asked too).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J It's time you set the NSA aside, see that these appointed
>>>>>> people
> made
>>>>>> decisions based upon what they thought best for moscow, and
>>>>>> move the
>> F*&^
>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it J and others, Nancy is doing what she feels is best
>>>>>> for the
>> Cow,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> that best is going to be the down fall of this town.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey hey ho ho Nancy Chaney has got to go
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:00:14 -0700
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, yes....but is that enough to recommend him?! No. Just
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>> serves on a city committee, does not mean he does so fairly,
> highly,
>> or
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> remotely in a good way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, but it was his time to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J :]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:36:06 -0700
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> J,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like to me, another act by our mayor to make Moscow a no
>>>>>>>> growth(sorry
>>>>>>>> smart growth), no hick liven, no blue collor wearin, we respect
> all
>>>>>> lives
>>>>>>>> except ones that go against our agenda town. Agree with Wheaton
> or
>>>>>> not,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> he served the town for fifteen years. At least give him that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:32:19 -0700
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My, my....now who sounds bitter?!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems to me, the Mayor finally listened to the citizens and
>>>>>>>>> got
>> rid
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>> egg.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's your REAL problem with this? After what happened at
>>>>>>>>> the
>> NSA
>>>>>>>>> hearing,
>>>>>>>>> you of all people should be happy - now, when Atwood or his
> other
>>>>>>>>> fellow-puppets wish to talk, chances are they will get ALL the
>> time
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> need to convince the BOA or the City Council just how
> persecuted
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> J :]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:10:33 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Knowing Wheaton, It's not hard to picture him refusing to
>> accord
>>>>>> Her
>>>>>>>>>> majesty, Queen Chaney, short may she reign, the deference
> she
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> come to expect. So, a little slight of hand with the city
>> staff,
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> quick
>>>>>>>>>> word of instruction to her pet monkeys Ament and Stout and
>> poof!
>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> annoying anti-toady. There's no question that Jon ran a no
>>>>>> nonsense
>>>>>>>>> meeting
>>>>>>>>>> and could be mildly abrasive in doing so but he always seemed
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> handed in the way he went about it. To give him the sack in
>> this
>>>>>>> manner
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> an insult to his service and a warning to others serving on
> the
>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>>> boards and commissions, warm up your rubber stamp or Nancy
> has
>> a
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>> surprise for you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Wheaton Story in paper
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments, anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Moscow City Council voted to remove Board of
> Adjustment
>>>>>>> Chairman
>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>>> Wheaton from his board position Monday night.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Issues have been reported relating to compliance with
> legal
>>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>>> for the job," said Moscow Mayor Nancy Chaney, who brought
>> the
>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>> as a new agenda item Monday night.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chaney declined to comment further on reasons for
> Wheaton's
>>>>>>> removal,
>>>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>>>> it is a personnel issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I regret that he has been unwilling to receive my efforts
>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> communicate,"
>>>>>>>>>>> she said. "I suggest that he be removed; I do this with
>>>>>> sadness."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wheaton, who has served on the board of adjustment for the
>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>> 15
>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> was reappointed chairman by the board this year, said he
>>>>>> refused
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> Chaney
>>>>>>>>>>> asked him to step down.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "She didn't say why," he said. "The closest she came was
>>>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> ruffled somebody's feathers. I thought, 'So they were
>>>>>> listening.
>>>>>>>>> Good.'
>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wheaton said he refused to sidestep Chaney or "play her
>> game."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "She's got something up her sleeve, but I don't know what
>> that
>>>>>>> is,"
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>>>>> "She wants to be queen, literally, and everybody will bow
>> and
>>>>>>> beckon
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> her." [DMC: Note - do not cross Nancy Chaney. You are a
> team
>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>> as you play the game her way.]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Moscow City Councilman John Weber voted against Wheaton's
>>>>>> removal.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't know that the entire (board of adjustment) panel
>> had
>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> spoken
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> about his removal," he said. "I didn't think it was
>> something
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> remove
>>>>>>>>>>> someone for."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> J :]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> __
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>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
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>>>>>>
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