[Vision2020] (no subject)

Lucyzoe lucyzoe at email.com
Mon Sep 25 10:46:15 PDT 2006

I'll gladly meet you for a drink. However, I'll warn you in advance, I am
nowhere near as righteous or unimpeachable as you appear to be. I have no
need or desire to dislike you. What purpose will that serve? And as for
bigotry - either the shoe fits or it doesn't. No amount of words will cover
up the act of singling out a group of faceless people and making disparaging
remarks about them. I've seen and experienced far too much prejudice to
pretend that I don't recognize it. If you need to call it something else to
justify your behavior - do what you must. You won't be the first, or the


-----Original Message-----
From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:09 PM
To: lucyzoe at email.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)


No, actually, I don't think of all of the adult men at Christ Church as "men
of chest" or "wee little men."  Most of the men are, I imagine, too busy
working hard to support their families to indulge in the kind of Trinitarian
Skylarking, arrogant engagement with the community, and strenuous defense of
a Gospel of fine wine, stout beer, rich cigars and slow-food gastronomy that
the leadership specializes in.  My comment to Guber is that he appears to be
learning well at the foot of his masters when, perhaps, he might consider
learning at the foot of the Master instead.

On the other hand, as I imagine you're well aware, the leadership of Christ
Church and its other organizations -- which you likely refer to as
ministries -- is entirely happy to be the public face of the assembly,
brooking little or no dissent from those heads of households who might also
like to represent Christ in their community, albeit with a finer hand and
more gentle heart.  It's those men who suffer from their association with
Christ Church; I certainly don't hold them responsible for bad behavior on
the part of the elders, only for their decision to remain loyal to them.

I suspect that, as Princess Sushitushi did, you will decline my offer to buy
you a drink of some sort, but if you're ever inclined, please know that I
would very much enjoy meeting you.  Email me off-line if you'd like.

Until then, remember that we are all accountable for our actions, our
loyalties, and our faithfulness.  It's bigoted to lump people together
because of traits that are non-volitional; acts of full volition, on the
other hand, announce character quite well and tend to bind together those
who behave similarly.  Please feel free to dislike me, if you feel the need,
if what I've said or done is objectionable to you or if I ever treat you
badly.  But let's neither of us call it bigotry on your part, and let's not
call it prejudice to judge people's actions -- if only as acts of allegiance
to those who conduct themselves poorly.

I hope to hear from you.


From: "Lucyzoe" <lucyzoe at email.com>
Reply-To: lucyzoe at email.com
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:28:27 -0700

I'm guessing you've chosen to be nasty to all Christ Church men based on
your dislike of a few. Would you advocate others follow your example and
stick labels on faceless people they've never met? It's been my experience
that prejudicial stereotyping grows from ignorant labeling. Based on your
prior posts, I get the impression you understand the danger of this type of
practice. I could give you numerous examples of the damage ignorant labeling
causes, but something tells me you've spent many years helping people remove
the sticky stuff left behind by the ignorant practice of others. I'm trying
to understand why you're justifying that behavior for yourself?

Lucy Z. Jones

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:57 PM
To: guber at yuber.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)

Ummm, Goob, I wonder if you know that consanguinuity -- you know, being
related by blood -- means someone is not "boarding" with someone else.
Let's use our new word in a sentence, OK?

"Rose and Don are related by consanguinuity to their daughter."

On another point, I can't help but wonder if you're one of the hearty men of
chest -- I call them "wee little men" -- of the Kirk.  Sadly, this gives me
little or no indication whether or not the snottiness I see  in your posts
is indicative of an utter lack of Spirit-led religious influence in your
life, or simply an aberration in an otherwise spiritual existence.  But if
you are a church-going man, you might consider speaking with your pastor or
an elder to help you find a more gentle, loving way of expressing yourself.

Unless it's your pastor or elders who . . . oh, never mind . . .



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