[Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
Jerry Weitz
gweitz at moscow.com
Mon Oct 9 21:18:09 PDT 2006
Bill, Whitman College is definitely in the official downtown designated
map. You may obtain for a copy of the map from Walla Walla's Downtown
Foundation, Walla Walla's Chamber, or the City of Walla Walla. The point
that I bring, the struggle with the NSA can not be won since all the folks
on both sides are addicted to their opinions. In the meantime, UI needs
our focus and energy. I agree that downtown Moscow is much smaller and very
pleasant. However, it is Walla Walla's attitudes about growth, tolerance,
education, and infrastructure that turned its direction. As a college
student in Walla Walla in the mid sixties, much of the same debate and
inhouse fighting that seems to be the rule these days for Moscow was
occuring. When the highway by-passed the WW, the debate was very
heated. Parking in Moscow could be much alleviated if we concentrated on
bypassing Moscow as WW has done ( a potential solution). Parking has
been/will always be a problem for downtown campuses, whether it is UCLA,
USC, or Boston College. I attended the home coming game and struggled
with parking at UI this weekend.
As far for tolerance, when the first Ursulines came to Moscow, some were
spit on. When the Adventist's came to WW they were lobbied and
welcomed. Interesting, about 200 feet from our home in Viola, one finds
the original Adventist school foundation.... Hand picked by the church's
prophet. Viola was once called Advent gulch. Viola was once considered
for the siting of what is now Walla Walla College. By the way, I have never
been a Seventh Day Adventist, although I attended some of their schools.
Jerry
At 03:16 PM 10/6/06, Bill London wrote:
>J-
>First, I think your assessment that Whitman College is located in downtown
>Walla Walla is not correct. From the core downtown at Main and 2nd (near
>the Marcus Whitman Hotel), Whitman College is about 8 blocks
>northeast. In other words, farther away from the core than the UI from
>downtown Moscow. Whitman College does not interfere with the core
>downtown business area by taking up scarce parking, not paying downtown
>property taxes or not supporting downtown improvement projects.
>
>The real difference between downtown Walla Walla and downtown Moscow is
>size, of course. The downtown forces in Walla Walla pulled together a
>total of $50 million in project improvements over the last decade or
>so. That's a huge pile of public and private money for infrastructure and
>business projects. If Moscow could amass a small percentage of that,
>lot's could happen.
>
>BL
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:gweitz at moscow.com>Jerry Weitz
>To: <mailto:london at moscow.com>Bill London ; <mailto:jampot at adelphia.net>g.
>crabtree ; <mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>Tom Trail ;
><mailto:vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:38 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
>
>Hi Bill, So you know, Walla Walla has Whitman College within their
>designated downtown map. A few blocks to the east on Park Street, the old
>high school was the first facility for Walla Walla Community College that
>started in 1967 with 850 students.... Presently has an enrollment of over
>13,000 and is located on 100 acres viewing the Blue Mountains. The old
>high school has pretty much been torn down. Thus keeping colleges out of
>downtown has not been area's focus and never has been. You may want to
>revisit you assumtion.
>
> Art is one of the facets on the complex diamond of ecomonic development,
> one of the coggs in the wheel. Tolerance for a wide range of political
> and religious views is the norm and another cogg as this area
> demonstrates. Walla Walla College is a (conservative liberal arts
> Adventist College in the center of the business district of College
> Place) with high ranks in engineering and health education. Whitman
> College is one of the nation's best liberal and science colleges. Walla
> Walla Community is one of Wn's best community colleges and is a great
> feeder for WSU. The colleges work together well.
>
> Incidentally, the area has a Super Walmart along with a long list of art
> gallaries and studios, museums, a large business park, the State
> Penitentiary, three hospitals (one Catholic,.one Adventist, and a VA),
> the army corp of engineers, a prosperous agiculture sector, a water
> reservior that supplies 75% of its needs, abundant high quality city
> parks, bike ways, a highway bypass, walking trails, a wonderful
> symphony, a very active downtown foundation, high quality public and
> private K-12s, a large airport, world class manufacturing, great dining,
> etc. Walla Walla is a vibrant area that focuses on its strenghts, places
> importance on prosperity, and is widely tolerant. Bill, perhaps our town
> has lost its way with its back biting, petty politics... and maybe we
> should call a no fault truce and truly work for betterment. I believe UI
> needs our town's attention as most of the other issues are a flash in the
> pan. Incidentally, Whitman College and Walla Walla College have
> significantly higher endowments than UI. Again, UI needs our undivided
> focus. Jerry
>
>
>At 05:41 PM 10/4/06, Bill London wrote:
>>Trying to distill this conversation, I think that it's true that we have
>>a community-wide agreement that attracting clean high-tech businesses is
>>our economic development goal. Within that framework, there has been
>>plenty of disagreement and finger-pointing.
>>
>>Some specifics:
>>
>>Jerry holds Walla Walla as an example of a well-developed community, and
>>asks for my opinion. I agree. I visited Walla Walla, and my Daily News
>>travel column about that visit focused on the vitality of their
>>downtown. Walla Walla has been very successful due to the community's
>>support for public art, the recent boom in wine (bringing new $ and new
>>creative people), the commitment to building their downtown and keeping
>>their colleges out of the downtown area.
>>
>>G. Crabtree asks me to justify my statement that :"They (the owners of
>>clean, high paying, high tech business) do not like freeways, strip
>>malls, and huge Wal-Mart's." Sure. I suggest he look to
>><http://www.creativeclass.org>www.creativeclass.org for a look at Richard
>>Florida's well-respected work in economic development. Florida explains
>>that the "creative class" (the thinking folks who make econ dev happen)
>>are attracted to communities with a vibrant and tolerant culture,
>>available outdoor recreation, and clusters of like-minded folks for
>>friends and employees (think near a university or two). Not a
>>homogenized McWasteland. Also, try
>><http://www.milkeninstitute.org>www.milkeninstitute.org for comparisons
>>of growing communities nationwide.
>>
>>Hope for the future? Yes, I think there is a growing interest in
>>stopping all this finger-pointing. The new Knowledge Corridor concept is
>>a great opportunity to link the strengths of Moscow, Pullman, WSU, and
>>UI. Moscow would really benefit from that combination since WSU/Pullman
>>is growing stronger daily. The first meeting is October 23, 11am to 2pm,
>>in Pullman. The local EDC is co-hosting this event, and you can get
>>details and register (reservations are required, but the public is
>>welcome) at <mailto:edc at moscow.com>edc at moscow.com
>>BL
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:gweitz at moscow.com>Jerry Weitz
>>To: <mailto:jampot at adelphia.net>g. crabtree ;
>><mailto:london at moscow.com>Bill London ; <mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>Tom
>>Trail ; <mailto:vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:11 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
>>Bill and Gary,
>>I agree that everyone desires high tech business in their area. What
>>progressive communities are doing is very exciting. In a study of
>>Munich, there is a strong trend to form communities within communites
>>(the same for Chicago) and attend to the livability factors. Cities are
>>wising up to what you allude to--packed freeways, strip malls, etc. Thus
>>if a company needs an educated workforce, they are considering cities and
>>downtown locations. More young, single, educated people are moving to
>>the cities. Rural areas(Mont.,S.D., N.D., Iowa, Neb.,and Kan.), are
>>beginning to fight back by the lures of free land and office space,
>>low-interest loans for new business, advice and mentoring, and rural
>>business tax breaks. Moscow is not. Bill, tonight I spoke with a young
>>person (whom we both know) that wishes to stay in Moscow when she
>>marries. This young potential couple is highly educated and are not able
>>to find work. Last year, I attended UI's Vandal Banquet honoring our
>>academic athletes, a number said they loved the Palouse, however they
>>would have to move to regions that offer a future since there is a lack
>>of job opportunities locally. So why not accomodate these great young people?
>>
>>Our assets are the Universities and the rural setting. The University: A
>>remarkable invention of western culture and a decisive catalyst in modern
>>soceity; an essential factor to society's effective functioning and
>>well-being. It manufactures no products, but creates the science and
>>technology on which those products depend. The university trains and
>>nutures each new generation of architects, artists, authors, business
>>leaders, engineers, farmers, lawyers, physicians, poets, scientists,
>>social workers and teachers. Thus we have two great positives: UI and WSU.
>>Yet, our rural University is declining, and has garnered less than great
>>ratings in the Princeton Review. Since knowledge is the dominant
>>economic force, the importance of the University can only grow in a
>>rapidly changing environment. Technology and education have fused. I
>>recently took a course in graduate statistics from UW online. Being a
>>math major, I have to admit statistics was not my favorite although the
>>theory of probability was great. Our office will be part of UW/Oregon
>>Health Science's research faculty. The on-line experience was the best
>>math class I have ever participated in. Recall, I once studied Math in
>>Germany for one year. Hence, location (mortar and brick) are not as
>>important as technology improves. The American Community College is
>>considered the best American invention in higher ed in a recent Economist
>>magazine's feature on the state of education in America. Hence, Moscow
>>has a way to go in helping defend UI against 21th century economic and
>>educational realities. However, the Quad cities have two great assets.
>>LCSC and WWCC.
>>In Harvard's Derek Bok's two recent books, Universities in the
>>Marketplace, and Our Underacheiving Colleges addresses why Moscow may
>>want to change, grow, embrace prosperity, and become business
>>friendly. Being isolated, rural, anti infrastructure are not
>>advantages. BSU has every intention of being the flagship both in
>>relevence, research, and student population. BSU has significant
>>Business Support.
>>Bill, please tell me what you think of Walla Walla why we shouldn't
>>model its optimism and actions. Thomas Freidman had a great editorial
>>about Europe's former poor house--Ireland. Ireland invested in
>>infrastructure, education, and business friendliness.. Walla Walla did
>>the same. The results are remarkable. Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>At 06:27 PM 10/3/06, g. crabtree wrote:
>>>Mr. London, could you flesh out your sweeping assertion that "They (the
>>>owners of clean, high paying, high tech business) do not like freeways,
>>>strip malls, and huge Wal-Mart's."? The bulk of those types of
>>>businesses are, in fact, located in cities that do have those things
>>>and, for the most part, in spades. Ed Schweitzer, the owner of what has
>>>to be the holy grail of the types of businesses that are being
>>>discussed, is not preparing to pull up stakes and bolt over a
>>>superstore, far from it. Increased expansion is the order of the day. He
>>>is on record as being "a strong proponent" of Pullman's Super Wal-Mart
>>>and is also in favor of greatly improved transportation in the
>>>Moscow-Pullman area. Could you point me to the study, poll, or interview
>>>that would bear out your contention that a bit of development would
>>>scare off the future high tech golden geese? Or is this simply a
>>>personally held conviction that you felt comfortable foisting onto the
>>>backs of entrepreneurs in an effort to further your own bucolic vision
>>>for Moscow?
>>>
>>>gc
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Bill London" <<mailto:london at moscow.com>london at moscow.com>
>>>To: "Tom Trail" <<mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>ttrail at moscow.com>;
>>><<mailto:vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>; "Jerry
>>>Weitz" <<mailto:gweitz at moscow.com>gweitz at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:48 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
>>> > J-
>>> > In your earlier post, you spoke of making a significant change in
>>> this
>>> > community. You wrote that we needed to embrace change and growth.
>>> > I tried to bring some specificity to that language when I asked about
>>> > your reaction to the Naylor Farms permit. In response, you noted
>>> that you
>>> > did not favor the Naylor Farms industrial model of growth, but instead
>>> > wanted clean high-tech businesses.
>>> > I hope that is an accurate summary of this discussion so far.
>>> > My point now is that what you are asking for (infusion of high-tech
>>> > businesses) is the status quo. Everybody wants that. Every city and
>>> county
>>> > in the US, and probably the world, wants clean well-paying high-tech
>>> > businesses. So, that is not new. With Alturas park, the business
>>> > incubator, the LEDC, and all, Moscow is already doing that.
>>> > So, I wonder -- what is your point? when you talk about embracing
>>> > growth and change, if the growth and change is carefully directed toward
>>> > clean high-tech businesses, I do not think you will find very many
>>> people
>>> > disagreeing. That is the Holy Grail of economic development these
>>> days --
>>> > and one that I support.
>>> > I think Moscow can recruit these in-demand high-tech businesses,
>>> either
>>> > by drawing them in or by growing them from the UI/WSU. But the
>>> reason they
>>> > would choose to settle here (remember they are being bribed by cities
>>> and
>>> > counties from all over to move to those locations) is that they like the
>>> > quality of life here.
>>> > The owners of those businesses like bike paths and good schools and a
>>> > vibrant cultural life. They do not like freeways, strip malls, and huge
>>> > Walmarts.
>>> > So, Jerry, what is it that you want to change about Moscow in your
>>> goal
>>> > of embracing growth?
>>> > BL
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Jerry Weitz" <<mailto:gweitz at moscow.com>gweitz at moscow.com>
>>> > To: "Bill London" <<mailto:london at moscow.com>london at moscow.com>; "Tom
>>> Trail" <<mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>ttrail at moscow.com>;
>>> > <<mailto:vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
>>> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:34 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Bill, Naylor Farms is not the type of growth I have ever
>>> pushed. What I
>>> > am
>>> >> talking about is a Stanford Research Park....Schweitzer type companies.
>>> > In
>>> >> this week's Kiplinger Report under trends, the letter reports a 30%
>>> >> increase (from 25 years ago) of young people moving to and remaining in
>>> >> urban areas. There are rural areas that are fighting back to keep
>>> their
>>> >> youth and/or recruit youth to their regions by offering strong tax
>>> >> incentives and in some cases, free land for businesses these youth are
>>> >> starting. Incidently, there are more upstart high tech companies in
>>> the US
>>> >> than ever in our history. Moscow is not an area that focuses on
>>> retaining
>>> >> our youth since job creation is not on the radar screen. In one
>>> > editorial,
>>> >> I suggested that the county buy Naylor farms and turn it into a
>>> >> business/ed research park. I talked with Sid Eder and Paul Kimmell
>>> about
>>> >> this concept.
>>> >>
>>> >> Would you agree such a business/ed park could reverse UI's decline? MIT
>>> > has
>>> >> less enrollment than UI and its graduates/faculty have spun off over
>>> 4,000
>>> >> companies and these companies collectively employ 1.1Million
>>> >> Folks. Route 128 in Boston in bristling with firms that are
>>> examples of
>>> >> bus/ed. Micron, for example, donated $5 million to BSU for two Phd
>>> >> programs in engineering. Micron used to donate to UI and I was told
>>> by an
>>> >> engineering prof that Micron-UI donations have dryed up, however
>>> > Schweitzer
>>> >> donates heavily to both WSU and UI. Gone are the days of extractive
>>> >> industries. I do not think it would take too many companies to reverse
>>> > the
>>> >> town's outlook. I do not believe our area will become an urban
>>> >> center. Research shows that in 1910, with the students are
>>> factored out,
>>> >> there was more population on the Palouse (Whitman and Latah
>>> Counties) than
>>> >> in year 2000. I am not afraid of growth, however there has been
>>> almost no
>>> >> planning. When you visited Walla Walla, did you feel the optimism and
>>> >> experience a very nicely laid out community? When I went to
>>> college in
>>> >> the mid 60's, Walla Walla was still complaining about not being the
>>> > capitol
>>> >> of WN and had a no-can-do-it attitude. When one extractive industry
>>> >> (timber) declined, Walla Walla refocused and came up with the wine
>>> >> industry. WWCommuniy College just started about when I graduated
>>> and has
>>> >> matured nicely. Whitman and Walla Walla College, the two privates, work
>>> >> together. The public k-12 is very progressive. Safe highways are
>>> lobbied
>>> >> for and Walla Walla has over a square mile of business park. Their
>>> > chamber
>>> >> is very organized and its web page is excellent. Walla Walla is a
>>> city of
>>> >> the arts.
>>> >>
>>> >> So what I am saying, we could do the same and by doing the same, I
>>> believe
>>> >> UI's fortunes will be enhanced and Moscow will benefit.
>>> >> Jerry
>>> >> At 03:20 PM 10/1/06, Bill London wrote:
>>> >> >Jerry:
>>> >> >A question: Naylor Farms, in their pitch for a county permit for the
>>> >> >operation of their mining operation north of Moscow, promised growth,
>>> >> >economic development, jobs, and economic diversification -- in short,
>>> >> >everything you have said that you support. Do you believe that the
>>> Latah
>>> >> >County Commissioners were wrong to deny Naylor Farms the option of
>>> >> >developing their land in that manner?
>>> >> >BL
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >> >From: "Jerry Weitz" <<mailto:gweitz at moscow.com>gweitz at moscow.com>
>>> >> >To: "Tom Trail" <<mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>ttrail at moscow.com>;
>>> <<mailto:vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
>>> >> >Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:16 PM
>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BYU-Idaho Enrollment
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > UI needs a boost with a business/ed research park similar to say
>>> > Chapel
>>> >> > > Hill, N.C.. WSU/Pullman/IU/Moscow are the assets. As Ed
>>> Schweitzer
>>> >> > > said, we live in a sea of land and a declining population.
>>> > Schweitzer
>>> >> > > Engineering has a challenge in recruitment and expansion due to the
>>> > lack
>>> >> >of
>>> >> > > housing and population. Schweitzer has said that his company in
>>> not
>>> > in
>>> >> >the
>>> >> > > real estate business, yet had to develop over 90 acres for housing.
>>> > The
>>> >> >no
>>> >> > > growth folks are hurting the UI, our area's potential, and
>>> Schweitzer.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > The UI is down 737 students state wide, with a decline of 628
>>> at the
>>> >> > > Moscow campus. BSU is up 277 to 18,876 (BSU has increased
>>> enrollment
>>> > 9
>>> >> >out
>>> >> > > of the last 10 years). BYU/Idaho is up 1220 students. Within five
>>> > years,
>>> >> > > at present growth rates, BYU/Idaho will see 20,000 students and
>>> within
>>> > 10
>>> >> > > years 30,000. Recall, BYU/Idaho with President Kim Clark, the
>>> > immediate
>>> >> > > former dean of Harvard Business School, has three imperitives: 1)
>>> > Vastly
>>> >> > > increase enrollment, 2) vastly improve educational quality, and 3)
>>> > keep
>>> >> > > relative educational costs down. Note that BYU/Provo turns away
>>> >> > > qualifiedsutdents-- about as many that apply.. I would guess:
>>> one of
>>> > the
>>> >> > > church's motives for expansion. BYU/Provo is a high educational
>>> > quality
>>> >> > > school. UI will most likely benefit at the graduate level due to
>>> > BYU/Idaho
>>> >> > > enrollment increases and mostly likely will see a decline in LDS
>>> kids
>>> > at
>>> >> > > the undergraduate level.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > ISU has lost about10% this year ( a decline of over 1200 ). UI
>>> > officials
>>> >> > > anticipated that its Twin Falls campus would suffer large
>>> declines and
>>> >> >made
>>> >> > > the right move to transfer out. Presently, UI's commendable
>>> response
>>> > is
>>> >> > > to place a lot of effort into recruitment and quality, however all
>>> > Idaho
>>> >> > > Public Universities will following suit and the competition will be
>>> >> > > strong. The result may be little net gain.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > There will be a push by UI to have a strong presence in CDA.
>>> > Presently,
>>> >> > > for example, CDA has been begging UI for a MBA program in their
>>> >> > > area. Money is the issue.. Gonzaga has filled the MBA role so far
>>> > and is
>>> >> > > expensive. The MBA needs to be tailored for the working
>>> professional.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Here is the challange: If the community keeps up with its petty
>>> > politics,
>>> >> > > such as stopping safe highways, serving an eviction notice to the
>>> >> > > Alternative High School, not dealing with water and other
>>> >> > > infrastructure..schools, losing its commerical base to the Pullman
>>> >> > > corridor, then the UI will have to accept declines in status,
>>> funding,
>>> > and
>>> >> > > enrollment. It will be like Ohio University vs Ohio State
>>> University
>>> > in
>>> >> > > dealing with BSU. All of higher ed will now have to compete
>>> with k-12
>>> > if
>>> >> > > the economy softens due to the sales tax shift.
>>> >> > > Boise will get a community college and should.. adding more
>>> > competition
>>> >> >for
>>> >> > > the ed dollar.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Yet, there exists a tremendous potential here on the Palouse for a
>>> > robust
>>> >> > > economy and thriving Universities. Think of the possiblities in
>>> >> > > alternative energy, global warming solutions (after all the ozone
>>> > layer
>>> >> >has
>>> >> > > almost been restored), agriculture, water, etc. and the spin
>>> off's.
>>> >> >Think
>>> >> > > of how much value Schweitzer Engineering has added to humankind and
>>> > this
>>> >> > > area. Think of how the UI's reputation would be enhanced..the
>>> MIT of
>>> > the
>>> >> > > west. The Palouse Universities have the potential of being
>>> defining
>>> > 21th
>>> >> > > Century institutions. The community must embrace growth and change
>>> > (the
>>> >> > > only constant).
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Now Tom, what are you going to do and what postion are you going to
>>> >> > > take? Jerry
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > At 04:12 PM 9/26/06, Tom Trail wrote:
>>> >> > > >Visionaires:
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >One should keep an eye on the enrollment trends in S.E.
>>> Idaho. The
>>> >> > > >enrollment at BYU-Idaho in Rexburg is over 15,000, and experts
>>> > predict
>>> >> > > >that within a few years it will overtake BSU and thus become the
>>> > largest
>>> >> > > >institution of higher learning in Idaho. The 9% drop in
>>> enrollment
>>> > at
>>> >> > > >ISU may be partially attributed competition with BYU-Idaho.
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >Rep. Tom Trail
>>> >> > > >--
>>> >> > > >Dr. Tom Trail
>>> >> > > >International Trails
>>> >> > > >1375 Mt. View Rd.
>>> >> > > >Moscow, Id. 83843
>>> >> > > >Tel: (208) 882-6077
>>> >> > > >Fax: (208) 882-0896
>>> >> > > >e mail <mailto:ttrail at moscow.com>ttrail at moscow.com
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >=======================================================
>>> >> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> >> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> >> > > > <http://www.fsr.net>http://www.fsr.net
>>> >> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >> > > >=======================================================
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > =======================================================
>>> >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> >> > > <http://www.fsr.net>http://www.fsr.net
>>> >> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >> > > =======================================================
>>> >> > >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > =======================================================
>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > <http://www.fsr.net>http://www.fsr.net
>>>
>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > =======================================================
>>> >
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