[Vision2020] Question for the Vision
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Wed Nov 22 08:21:37 PST 2006
Oh for Pete's sake Jennifer, look what you started!
Where does society draw the line between reasonable regulation of personal
behavior and nanny state tyranny??
Should we require locks on toilet bowls that toddlers might never drown in
them? Mandatory gates at the head of every stairway for the same reason??
Mandatory home inspections to ensure compliance??
Auuuuuuuuugh!!! it's too early for this!! Will someone please step
forward with all the answers?????
Desperate, -T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" <editor at lataheagle.com>
To: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>; "Vision 2020"
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
> What it boils down to is:
>
> Try as you might, you cannot legislate stupidity out of existence. It is a
> waste of time, effort and money.
>
> It used to be that our mothers would yell at us while climbing trees,
> "When
> you fall and hurt yourself, don't come crying to me!"
> Now its "We need legislation to make trees safer!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Craine Kit
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:55 AM
> To: Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Chris Storhok wrote:
>
>> Tony,
>> Why relinquish rights to medical care if you are not wearing a seat
>> belt? They are paying for it through their own private insurance,
>> employee plan, or forced contribution to Medicaid/Medicare, etc.
>> Should
>> someone who eats Big Macs on a regular basis waive coverage for
>> coronary
>> disease? Or how about someone who drinks a liter or two of Coke in a
>> day; should they waive coverage of diabetes? liver disease? dental
>> care?
>>
>>
>> Mandatory helmets for motorcycle riders fits into the same category as
>> seat belts, why does the state of Idaho, AK and others require
>> seatbelts
>> yet let motorcyclists, snowmobiliers, ATV'ers ride without a helmet?
>> These user groups have maintained their rights to avoid obvious safety
>> equipment by playing the born free and live free card. I agree with
>> them, the price of a free nation is my precious dollar of which I am
>> willing to part with through higher insurance costs and so forth.
>> Will
>> you ever see me ride a snowmachine, ATV or whatever without a helmet,
>> hell no!! But that is my choice. I personally am sick and tired
>> of the
>> equating dollars to activities/lifestyle argument that interest groups
>> continually advance, what is the price of human life? The greatest
>> threat to our freedoms are nanny accountants who will do anything to
>> keep a $$$ in their pockets.
>>
>> I now see that MADD (a group far more dedicated to abolition
>> instead of
>> their signature cause of drunk driving) is trying advance legislation
>> that will require alcohol interlock devices on all vehicles.
>> And Big Brother grows.....
>>
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tony [mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net]
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:13 PM
>> To: Chris Storhok
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>
>> Well argued Chris. Ultimately, the best answer would be to leave
>> it up
>> to
>> individuals to act as they wish with regard to their personal safety
>> including a requirement that they relinquish in writing their
>> rights to
>> medical assistance and care should they lose the gamble. Would
>> that we
>> could have an ideal society........
>>
>> My best, -T
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Storhok" <cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us>
>> To: "Jennifer McFarland" <jmcfarland at latah.id.us>; "Vision 2020"
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>
>>
>>> What I find interesting about this debate is the underlying question
>> of
>>> what level of nanny-government should we adopt (or be forced to live
>>> with) to save a buck?
>>>
>>> If one searches through all the "causes" out there that promote
>>> government regulation in the name of saving someone a dollar (and
>>> naturally lives = $$$$) you come up with a potential laundry list
>>> that
>>> ultimately leads to a totalitarian society ruled by actuary tables.
>>>
>>> A small sample of the "cost" of human activity:
>>> Smoking, $92 Billion US-wide (2005 CDC)
>>> Drinking, $185 Billion US-wide (2000 National Institutes of Health)
>>> Obesity, $35 Billion (US-wide (no pun intended) (2004 NIH)
>>> "Illegal" drug use, $180 Billion US-wide (2002 - White House ONDCP)
>>>
>>> As Kai just pointed out, we never see the saved $$$ anyway.
>>> All we see is more and more regulation in the name of whatever cause
>> is
>>> in the spot light at the time.
>>>
>>> Heck, I always use my seat belt, not out of fear of the law or saving
>>> someone a precious tax dollar but because I know the seat belt works.
>> I
>>> wear a helmet on a snowmobile, motorcycle, and when I play hockey
>>> because I know the helmet decreases the likelihood of serious injury
>> in
>>> case I screw up (or someone else does); but I really hate the idea of
>>> government mandates.
>>>
>>> Death or serious injury due to life choices is a tragedy, but I fear
>> an
>>> oppressive nanny government far more than a thinner wallet due to
>>> someone's lifestyle choice. I, for one, feel that we as a nation
>> have
>>> pushed the envelope too far; if you don't want to wear a seat belt;
>> that
>>> is your choice, not the governments...
>>>
>>>
>>> (Damn Cold and Damn Dark in N.P. AK)
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer
>>> McFarland
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:03 PM
>>> To: 'Vision 2020'
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>>
>>> Good points, indeed, but I would argue that the unbelted are indeed
>>> putting
>>> me at risk, at least financially. I pay taxes and I'd rather my tax
>>> money
>>> go toward more productive things than paying for the aftermath of
>>> fatality
>>> collisions (officer overtime, court costs, insurance increases,
>>> etc.).
>>> In
>>> effect, Idahoans collectively paying $575 million a year for people
>> who
>>> don't think they should have to wear seatbelts. I doubt we pay a
>>> similar
>>> amount to cover costs associated with bungee jumping accidents.
>>>
>>> Det. Jennifer L. McFarland
>>> Latah County Sheriff's Office
>>> Public Information Officer
>>> PO Box 8068
>>> Moscow, Idaho 83843
>>> (208) 882-2216
>>> Fax (208) 883-2281
>>> http://www.latah.id.us/Dept/Sheriff_Main.htm
>>>
>>> Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
>>> affairs.
>>> ***Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 13:50
>>> To: Kai Eiselein, editor; Jennifer McFarland; 'Vision 2020'
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>>
>>> Very well said Kai. It is stupid and self destructive, but should be
>> up
>>> to
>>> them, so long as it does not put some one else at risk. The same goes
>>> for
>>> helmets and life preserver. I think Bungi jumping is also stupid and
>>> dangerous. Should it be outlawed?
>>>
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" editor at lataheagle.com
>>> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:17:04 -0800
>>> To: "Jennifer McFarland" jmcfarland at latah.id.us, "'Vision 2020'"
>>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>>
>>>> I believe that all persons under the age of 18 should be belted, and
>>>> officers should be able to pull over a vehicle if they see an
>> unbelted
>>>> minor.
>>>> Adults, however, should make their own choices.
>>>> I say this in light of the fact that I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt and
>>> twice
>>> have
>>>> walked away relatively uninjured because of them, including an end
>>> over
>>> end
>>>> rollover.
>>>> I've also been injured by a seatbelt; compression fractures in my
>>> back.
>>> But
>>>> that was an oddball accident and if I hadn't been wearing a
>>>> seatbelt,
>>> the
>>>> doctors said I would have probably broken my neck.
>>>> What is needed is better education as to WHY people need to use
>>> seatbelts
>>>> and use actual, close up, gory photos of those that didn't. I've
>>> crawled
>>>> into a car after a guy hit a telephone pole at 30 mph with no belt
>> and
>>> it
>>> is
>>>> not a pretty sight. Maybe if people see the real, unsanitized
>> results,
>>> their
>>>> seatbelt usage would change.
>>>> I think our police have better things to do than play parent to
>>>> adult
>>>> drivers.
>>>> It also seems a bit goofy to me to toughen seatbelt laws on adults,
>>> while
>>>> having no helmet law for them.
>>>> Just my two cents worth.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Jennifer
>>>> McFarland
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:16 PM
>>>> To: 'Vision 2020'
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Visionaries,
>>>>
>>>> I hope you are all doing well as we enter the holiday season. I
>>> issued
>>> a
>>>> press release a little over a week ago alerting the public of our
>>> "Click
>>> It
>>>> Don't Risk It!" seat belt compliance campaign. I'm happy to say
>>>> that
>>> of
>>> the
>>>> 15 cars I pulled over yesterday, only one person was not in
>> compliance
>>> with
>>>> Idaho's seat belt laws. However, I was just visited by a friend
>>>> form
>>> the
>>>> Lewiston Police Department (our partner in this year's campaign),
>>>> and
>>> he
>>> and
>>>> I talked about our laws relative to Washington's laws. In Idaho, an
>>> officer
>>>> must pull a car over for a "greater" offense (speeding, having a
>>>> registration sticker in the wrong place, not having a front plate,
>>> etc.)
>>> in
>>>> order to enforce the seat belt laws. In other words, I cannot pull
>>> over a
>>>> car just because I see a small child standing up in the back seat-
>>>> I'd
>>> have
>>>> to have other probable cause to pull over said vehicle. The
>>>> Lewiston
>>>> officer I've been working with has spent a lot of time trying to
>>> change
>>>> Idaho's laws regarding seat belt use to: 1. make it a primary
>> offense,
>>> and
>>>> 2. raise the fines so they are commensurate with other states' fines
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> same. I've heard arguments supporting both sides to this, but I am
>>> curious
>>>> as to what Latah County's citizens think about our seat belt
>>> laws-whether
>>>> they are adequate as they are, if they should change, how they
>>>> should
>>>> change, etc. My own views on seat belt usage have as much to do
>>>> with
>>> how
>>> I
>>>> was raised as they do with a general aversion to the gruesome scenes
>>> I've
>>>> experienced responding to collisions wherein the passenger(s) were
>> not
>>>> properly restrained (and having to notify next of kin). But I also
>>> realize
>>>> that my experience is just that-mine. What are your thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your time,
>>>>
>>>> ~Jennifer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Det. Jennifer L. McFarland
>>>> Latah County Sheriff's Office
>>>> Public Information Officer
>>>> PO Box 8068
>>>> Moscow, Idaho 83843
>>>> (208) 882-2216
>>>> Fax (208) 883-2281
>>>> http://www.latah.id.us/Dept/Sheriff_Main.htm
>>>>
>>>> Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
>>> affairs.
>>>> ***Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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