[Vision2020] Question for the Vision

[Craine Kit]

On Nov 21, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Chris Storhok wrote:

> Tony,
> Why relinquish rights to medical care if you are not wearing a seat
> belt? They are paying for it through their own private insurance,
> employee plan, or forced contribution to Medicaid/Medicare, etc.   
> Should
> someone who eats Big Macs on a regular basis waive coverage for  
> coronary
> disease?  Or how about someone who drinks a liter or two of Coke in a
> day; should they waive coverage of diabetes? liver disease? dental  
> care?
>
>
> Mandatory helmets for motorcycle riders fits into the same category as
> seat belts, why does the state of Idaho, AK and others require  
> seatbelts
> yet let motorcyclists, snowmobiliers, ATV'ers ride without a helmet?
> These user groups have maintained their rights to avoid obvious safety
> equipment by playing the born free and live free card. I agree with
> them, the price of a free nation is my precious dollar of which I am
> willing to part with through higher insurance costs and so forth.   
> Will
> you ever see me ride a snowmachine, ATV or whatever without a helmet,
> hell no!! But that is my choice.   I personally am sick and tired  
> of the
> equating dollars to activities/lifestyle argument that interest groups
> continually advance, what is the price of human life?   The greatest
> threat to our freedoms are nanny accountants who will do anything to
> keep a $$$ in their pockets.
>
> I now see that MADD (a group far more dedicated to abolition  
> instead of
> their signature cause of drunk driving) is trying advance legislation
> that will require alcohol interlock devices on all vehicles.
> And Big Brother grows.....
>
>
> Take Care,
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony [mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:13 PM
> To: Chris Storhok
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>
> Well argued Chris.  Ultimately, the best answer would be to leave  
> it up
> to
> individuals to act as they wish with regard to their personal safety
> including a requirement that they relinquish in writing their  
> rights to
> medical assistance and care should they lose the gamble.  Would  
> that we
> could have an ideal society........
>
> My best,   -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Storhok" <cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us>
> To: "Jennifer McFarland" <jmcfarland at latah.id.us>; "Vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>
>
>> What I find interesting about this debate is the underlying question
> of
>> what level of nanny-government should we adopt (or be forced to live
>> with) to save a buck?
>>
>> If one searches through all the "causes" out there that promote
>> government regulation in the name of saving someone a dollar (and
>> naturally lives = $$$$) you come up with a potential laundry list  
>> that
>> ultimately leads to a totalitarian society ruled by actuary tables.
>>
>> A small sample of the "cost" of human activity:
>> Smoking, $92 Billion US-wide (2005 CDC)
>> Drinking, $185 Billion US-wide (2000 National Institutes of Health)
>> Obesity, $35 Billion (US-wide (no pun intended) (2004 NIH)
>> "Illegal" drug use, $180 Billion US-wide (2002 - White House ONDCP)
>>
>> As Kai just pointed out, we never see the saved $$$ anyway.
>> All we see is more and more regulation in the name of whatever cause
> is
>> in the spot light at the time.
>>
>> Heck, I always use my seat belt, not out of fear of the law or saving
>> someone a precious tax dollar but because I know the seat belt works.
> I
>> wear a helmet on a snowmobile, motorcycle, and when I play hockey
>> because I know the helmet decreases the likelihood of serious injury
> in
>> case I screw up (or someone else does); but I really hate the idea of
>> government mandates.
>>
>> Death or serious injury due to life choices is a tragedy, but I fear
> an
>> oppressive nanny government far more than a thinner wallet due to
>> someone's lifestyle choice.   I, for one, feel that we as a nation
> have
>> pushed the envelope too far; if you don't want to wear a seat belt;
> that
>> is your choice, not the governments...
>>
>>
>> (Damn Cold and Damn Dark in N.P. AK)
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer  
>> McFarland
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:03 PM
>> To: 'Vision 2020'
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>
>> Good points, indeed, but I would argue that the unbelted are indeed
>> putting
>> me at risk, at least financially.  I pay taxes and I'd rather my tax
>> money
>> go toward more productive things than paying for the aftermath of
>> fatality
>> collisions (officer overtime, court costs, insurance increases,  
>> etc.).
>> In
>> effect, Idahoans collectively paying $575 million a year for people
> who
>> don't think they should have to wear seatbelts.  I doubt we pay a
>> similar
>> amount to cover costs associated with bungee jumping accidents.
>>
>> Det. Jennifer L. McFarland
>> Latah County Sheriff's Office
>> Public Information Officer
>> PO Box 8068
>> Moscow, Idaho 83843
>> (208) 882-2216
>> Fax (208) 883-2281
>> http://www.latah.id.us/Dept/Sheriff_Main.htm
>>
>> Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
>> affairs.
>> ***Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 13:50
>> To: Kai Eiselein, editor; Jennifer McFarland; 'Vision 2020'
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>
>> Very well said Kai. It is stupid and self destructive, but should be
> up
>> to
>> them, so long as it does not put some one else at risk. The same goes
>> for
>> helmets and life preserver.  I think Bungi jumping is also stupid and
>> dangerous. Should it be outlawed?
>>
>> Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" editor at lataheagle.com
>> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:17:04 -0800
>> To: "Jennifer McFarland" jmcfarland at latah.id.us, "'Vision 2020'"
>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>
>>> I believe that all persons under the age of 18 should be belted, and
>>> officers should be able to pull over a vehicle if they see an
> unbelted
>>> minor.
>>> Adults, however, should make their own choices.
>>> I say this in light of the fact that I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt and
>> twice
>> have
>>> walked away relatively uninjured because of them, including an end
>> over
>> end
>>> rollover.
>>> I've also been injured by a seatbelt; compression fractures in my
>> back.
>> But
>>> that was an oddball accident and if I hadn't been wearing a  
>>> seatbelt,
>> the
>>> doctors said I would have probably broken my neck.
>>> What is needed is better education as to WHY people need to use
>> seatbelts
>>> and use actual, close up, gory photos of those that didn't. I've
>> crawled
>>> into a car after a guy hit a telephone pole at 30 mph with no belt
> and
>> it
>> is
>>> not a pretty sight. Maybe if people see the real, unsanitized
> results,
>> their
>>> seatbelt usage would change.
>>> I think our police have better things to do than play parent to  
>>> adult
>>> drivers.
>>> It also seems a bit goofy to me to toughen seatbelt laws on adults,
>> while
>>> having no helmet law for them.
>>> Just my two cents worth.
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Jennifer  
>>> McFarland
>>>   Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:16 PM
>>>   To: 'Vision 2020'
>>>   Subject: [Vision2020] Question for the Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Dear Visionaries,
>>>
>>>   I hope you are all doing well as we enter the holiday season.  I
>> issued
>> a
>>> press release a little over a week ago alerting the public of our
>> "Click
>> It
>>> Don't Risk It!" seat belt compliance campaign.  I'm happy to say  
>>> that
>> of
>> the
>>> 15 cars I pulled over yesterday, only one person was not in
> compliance
>> with
>>> Idaho's seat belt laws.  However, I was just visited by a friend  
>>> form
>> the
>>> Lewiston Police Department (our partner in this year's campaign),  
>>> and
>> he
>> and
>>> I talked about our laws relative to Washington's laws.  In Idaho, an
>> officer
>>> must pull a car over for a "greater" offense (speeding, having a
>>> registration sticker in the wrong place, not having a front plate,
>> etc.)
>> in
>>> order to enforce the seat belt laws.  In other words, I cannot pull
>> over a
>>> car just because I see a small child standing up in the back seat- 
>>> I'd
>> have
>>> to have other probable cause to pull over said vehicle.  The  
>>> Lewiston
>>> officer I've been working with has spent a lot of time trying to
>> change
>>> Idaho's laws regarding seat belt use to: 1. make it a primary
> offense,
>> and
>>> 2. raise the fines so they are commensurate with other states' fines
>> for
>> the
>>> same.  I've heard arguments supporting both sides to this, but I am
>> curious
>>> as to what Latah County's citizens think about our seat belt
>> laws-whether
>>> they are adequate as they are, if they should change, how they  
>>> should
>>> change, etc.  My own views on seat belt usage have as much to do  
>>> with
>> how
>> I
>>> was raised as they do with a general aversion to the gruesome scenes
>> I've
>>> experienced responding to collisions wherein the passenger(s) were
> not
>>> properly restrained (and having to notify next of kin).  But I also
>> realize
>>> that my experience is just that-mine.  What are your thoughts?
>>>
>>>   Thank you for your time,
>>>
>>>   ~Jennifer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Det. Jennifer L. McFarland
>>>   Latah County Sheriff's Office
>>>   Public Information Officer
>>>   PO Box 8068
>>>   Moscow, Idaho 83843
>>>   (208) 882-2216
>>>   Fax (208) 883-2281
>>>   http://www.latah.id.us/Dept/Sheriff_Main.htm
>>>
>>>   Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
>> affairs.
>>>   ***Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
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>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
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