[Vision2020] Abortion and the Bible

[keely emerinemix]

Nick,

I meant the last sentence as a bit of humor, and in re-reading it I see that 
it had the opposite effect:  that of artificially, perhaps blithely, 
dividing people into camps.

What I meant was a self-deprecating acknowledgement that "once again" I make 
seemingly black-and-white issues a hazy, heathery, gray, a trait that 
bothers me only when I do it in error, but annoys my Kirk and other critics 
incessantly, and I don't fit in easily with one side of the 
socioreligious-political continuum or the other.  In reality, I absolutely 
understand that most sane people aren't rooted in one extreme; in an attempt 
to poke a little fun at myself, I ended up sounding as if there should be 
such division.  Not cool, and not especially as relates to our friendship.  
To both you and Tony, I offer my apologies.  Mea culpa!!

As far as the omniscience of a God who "repents and regrets," I freely 
acknowledge that my understanding is formed less by textual analysis and 
linguistic nuance than by a faith-understanding of who Yahweh is, an 
understanding that is not empty of intellectual reason -- my study of 
Scripture -- but nonetheless fully informed by the Holy Spirit, (as far as 
can be possible in a being whose earnestness is exceeded only by her moral 
imperfection).  Still, I only have concerns about the non-omniscience 
(-presence, -potence) of God when the belief is voiced by evangelical 
Christians, such as those who embrace "openness theology."  It's not 
something I could divide over, or break fellowship with because of, but as a 
departure from historic Christian thought and doctrine, it is problematic.

Your Theology Bluebook is one of the "grab in case of a fire" volumes in my 
library, Nick, and I've learned much from you through it as well as on 
Vision.  We're long overdue for lunch, and I'm grateful that our esteem for 
each other isn't built on this or any other issue.  Thanks for your comments 
and for giving me the chance to respond!

keely


From: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Abortion and the Bible
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:16:00 -0800

Dear Keely:

As always, I stand in awe of the elegance and clarity of your expression and 
your eminently civil way of engaging in argument.

I am a little distressed, however, at your final sentence, in which you 
imply that I will somehow disown you from my "camp."  First, I don't have a 
"camp" even though Kirkers want all of their critics to belong to a camp of 
intolerants.  Second, I don't disown people because they disagree with me; 
and neither do I somehow have the power to deny free speech, certainly not 
to some tough guy down the hill.

Your theological acumen turns me on, Keely, but I just want to remind you 
that the wonderful terms "omnipresence," "omnipotence," and "omniscient" are 
not biblical terms.  The attributes of the Christian God have just as much 
to do with Greek theology as the Bible.  For example, the Hebrew Scriptures 
state that Yahweh repented or regretted at least 33 times. Both of these 
actions make sense only on the basis of incomplete knowledge, so an 
omniscient being could not repent or regret.

If divine repentence and regret are just figures of speech, then it destroys 
the dyanamic nature of God that one gets nicely from process theology, which 
I embrace.  Process theology is eminently biblical in that it rejects divine 
immutability, a Greek attribute unwisely given to a very dynamic biblical 
God.

Yes, I grant that Yahweh appears to be omnipotent, but I, and many others, 
argue that divine omnipotence undermines the freedom of the will.  I gifted 
you a copy of my "Theology Bluebook," and I write much more about the divine 
attributes there and at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/attributes.htm.  Divine 
omnipotence also means that God is the author of evil, as I argue at 
www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/dp3.htm.

On the issue of abortion, you have the most reasonable and tolerant position 
of any person I know who claims that the fetus is a person from conception 
on. Would that your grace and forbearance were found among more abortion 
opponents.

Thanks for the illuminating dialogue,

Nick

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