[Vision2020] Tet Offensive

[Bill London]

T-
How many "viciously oppressed populations" are there now around the world?
How many of those populations do you propose the US support with invasions
of their countries?
BL


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive


> Sunil, It is more likely that Pat and I simply disagree with the point you
> are making than that we are ignorant of it altogether.  We are as aware as
> you of the bitterly divided nature of Iraq's population.  But remember,
> Sunil, the original question that gave birth to the historical example of
> Japan was whether devastating military force is a viable option in
defeating
> a very dangerous adversary.  Clearly in the case of Imperial Japan, it
WAS.
> For you to refuse to acknowledge that historical reality is to fail to
> engage in a fair-minded dialog.  Of course, because of the divisive nature
> of Iraqi culture, any solution, military or otherwise, is clearly going to
> be a greater challenge.  But why do you see no merit whatsoever in this
> administration's efforts to free this viciously oppressed population?  And
> why have you so little patience for those who would support our leadership
> in that objective?
>
> Curious,    -T
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
>
>
> > Pat,
> >
> > I tried to make this point to you before, and obviously failed.  I tried
> > to
> > make it again to Tony, and it's obvious you still don't see what I'm
> > trying
> > to say this time either, but I'll try again.
> >
> > Japan has a very homogenous population.  Iraq's population has three
> > different competing groups with major fissures.  That means that it is
> > very
> > difficult to find agreement, if for example, one of the groups thinks it
> > can
> > get a better outcome outside of the system we are trying to impose. This
> > is
> > something the government should have considered.  It is the type of
> > subject
> > that should have been part of the discussion in Congress if it was a
> > reason
> > for the invasion.
> >
> > There is no similarity between Japan and Iraq, and wishful thinking and
> > platitudes like "Maybe it can work out' are not good enough.  I think we
> > need more than that when we risk lives and treasure.   We need some
> > practical reason to believe such a policy might work.
> >
> > Since I don't support our government killing Iraqis, I don't support
> > Hussein
> > doing it.  How strange of you to make that suggestion.  Are you
suggesting
> > the reason for our intervention was humanitarian?  Why haven't we
invaded
> > Sudan?  There's certainly a humanitarian disaster going on there.
> >
> > I don't think we invaded for humanitarian reasons.  Hussein was a
butcher
> > from the beginning, yet we supported him.  When he was gassing the
Kurds,
> > we
> > tried to blame the Iranians for the use of gas, when they were also
> > victims
> > of the same cruelty.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> >>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> >>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
> >>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:51:59 -0800
> >>
> >>I can't think of one in Asia either before Japan but they are now.
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:06 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
> >>
> >>
> >>Yes, blindingly brilliant, once I remembered that the Confederacy was
made
> >>up of a mixture of Sunni Arabs, Shiite Arabs, and Kurds, who had once
> >>lived
> >>under the US Constitution.  That was why we were able to have them
accept
> >>the outcome of the Civil War.
> >>
> >>Now, can you point to a single place in the Middle East where democracy
> >>was
> >>imposed by a foreign invader?  You seem to be saying that is the reason
> >>for
> >>our illegal invasion of Iraq.  If that was the reason, why was that not
> >>part
> >>of a national debate before the invasion?  Shouldn't we have some
> >>assessment
> >>of whether it's been done before, and whether it's possible now?
> >>
> >>I don't expect you to answer that question, but if you're going to
accuse
> >>me
> >>of clouding the issue, you should be honest enough to try.  Suprise me,
> >>won't you?
> >>
> >>And since you also talk of uneducated third worlders in a tone that at
> >>best
> >>is patronizing and at worst racist (your use of the word 'raghead'
cements
> >>that view), don't you remember that supporters of the war claimed that
> >>transformation of Iraq would be easy because of its highly-educated
> >>population?
> >>
> >>Sunil
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> >> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
> >> >Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:47:19 -0800
> >> >
> >> >Thank you Sunil.  I thought that particular post of mine was
> >> >particularly
> >> >brilliant.  Kind of you to acknowledge that.
> >> >
> >> >Best,  -T
> >>
> >>
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