[Vision2020] Tet Offensive

[Tony]

Matt,

Your thoughtful exchange with Sunil prompts this musing....

It is troubling that so many folks expect the administration to provide for 
their security while attempting to micro-manage all conflicts from their 
armchair.  I too tend to trust those in a position to know, who also seem to 
me to be men and woman of intelligence and fair mindedness - the Bushes, 
Cheneys, RUMSFELDS and Rices.  And yup, we have not utilized our military to 
its full capability or we would have celebrated an adequate victory by now. 
Had we employed tactics like Truman did against the Japanese, or Sherman did 
against the south, or as Mac Arthur wanted to against the Soviets, many of 
the threats we face today would not have materialized in the first place. 
The senators and brass monkeys back home are influenced by their 
constituents, who are misinformed and dispirited by a predominantly disloyal 
and deceitful, liberal media.  You correctly note that the primary problem 
in Iraq and Vietnam is and was politicians and journalists dictating 
military policy rather than generals.

Your observation about the coverage of the mosque in Fallujah where Al-Zar 
punk-boy was hiding was also correct.  We should have ignored the 
collaborating subversives in our media and allowed the generals to blast the 
bastard, mosque and all, right into Allah's lap.  This only sounds bad to 
those who haven't the stomach for what is unavoidable to achieve victory or 
the sense to defer to those who do.

As far as expediency in war is concerned, sometimes you have to cut off a 
finger to save a hand.  If by killing innocents as we clearly did at Dresden 
or with the A-bomb, we are able to pre-empt the death of  MANY TIMES that 
number, which was Truman's conclusion, we have done what we had to do.  It 
is cruel in the extreme for those not saddled with such wrenching decisions 
to condemn the conclusions acted upon by those who are.

Yes, the media tend to focus on the EXCEPTIONS rather than the RULE as far 
as our troops actions are concerned - ignoring the good and endlessly 
highlighting the occasional exception such as Abu Graub (sp?).

Anywho, hope you had a good weekend,     -Tony
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
To: <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive


> Sunil,
>
> You have a lot or very good points and questions in your last post. What 
> do
> we do in Iraq? I myself won't kid anyone about what we shoould do and not 
> do
> now, for I am not the expert. I will leave that to the people in postion. 
> I
> do feel however, that we did not utilize the best military in world to 
> it's
> full capabilities. We have young very intelligent and highly motivated
> Marines and soldiers. Instead we over used them and now have the national
> gaurd pulling duties. These reservists, no offense, are not as specilized 
> as
> the regulars. Granted it doesn't matter who is driving into the IED, but I
> can also say if we had let the generals do there jobs at the begining of 
> the
> war instead of the senators and brass monkies back home, things would be
> different.
>
> The media has not played a very supportive role in this and vietnam war.
> They tend to remind the public that Marines have surrounded Falujiah and 
> are
> about to destroy a mosque that has Al-Zaqauri in it. They will focas their
> opinion on how destroying that Mosque will be devistating to our cause, 
> but
> won't realize that in war you have to be fast, deadly, and pack fury with
> you. War is never good but if your going to do it, then kill them quick. 
> Use
> sense and only kill the bad ones, including the 13 kid with an ak47 
> shooting
> at you. But get it done quickly. It sounds  bad but all great leaders have
> realized this concept, including Hitler. Bad man but a great leader. Ok 
> now
> i'm rambling.
>
> As in the media, they do whats good for them, the story. Portraying a 
> marine
> as a baby killer, but not have the slightest clue that the kid was 
> shooting
> at him. If they had shown the bad things we did in WWII, we would have 
> never
> one. Shooting unarmed Japanese, bombing Drisdin, assasanations, Etc. I 
> don't
> agree with them, but will also tend to push that aside for the overall
> agenda, victory and peace.
>
> In no means should the media not do story about Cambodia or, Muy Lia, or 
> the
> recent 7 Marines in Iraq that staged a civilians death as terroristic. 
> They
> should. We should know about what going on, in order to learn from it. 
> But,
> the medias portrayal of the Vietnam War and Iraq war has been nothing but
> negative. Which in turn WILL kill more Marines and soldiers.
>
> Try the next time you watch the news and count how many positive stories 
> you
> here about. Kids being helped, buildings being built, area being secured,
> then count how many bad stories you here.
> Then go to conservative web site and look at the good stories you see. A
> total different story.
>
> Anyways I won't go on any further for now, but since I will most likely be
> called a bunch of names and ridiculed for this, not by you, you have too
> much class, but by others, I will just let you know I am leaving town for
> the weekend so a response won't be for a couple of days.
>
> Take care Sunil
>
>
>>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
>>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:12:27 -0800
>>
>>Matt,
>>
>>I tried to find the show tonight at 9, and it wasn't there.  So I did some
>>reading about Tet here:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_offensive
>>
>>and browsed through Stanley Karnow's 'Vietnam, a history.'  I think Kai is
>>right in that neither the Vietcong nor the NVA could claim a traditional
>>military victory after Tet.  But I think they scored a propoganda victory,
>>and I don't think that was media's fault or doing.  After years of our
>>government claiming we were close to victory, they struck all over South
>>Vietnam, even hitting our embassy.  Until Tet, the media went along with
>>whatever the government was saying.  Tet changed that, and led to more
>>critical reporting.
>>
>>Ultimately, I think Tet points out some of the problems inherent in wars
>>like Vietnam or Iraq: when you end up in the middle of someone else's 
>>civil
>>war, how do you define victory?  How can you win?  That we had a military
>>victory at Tet was not enough in the end.
>>
>>This is a quote I came across several times in the last couple of months,
>>in articles comparing Iraq and Vietnam:
>>
>>'This brings to mind a story from the Vietnam era, as written up in the
>>March-April 2005 Military Review: "While negotiating in Hanoi a few days
>>before Saigon fell, U.S. Army Colonel Harry Summers, Jr. [later author of
>>On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War], said to a North
>>Vietnamese colonel, 'You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield.'
>>The Vietnamese colonel replied, 'That may be so, but it is also
>>irrelevant.'" '
>>
>>People often blame the media for the outcome of the Vietnam War.  Would it
>>have been right for the media not to cover, for example, the bombing of
>>Cambodia?  If Americans and Vietnamese had continued to die without news
>>coverage, would that really have changed the outcome or made what we were
>>doing right?
>>
>>I don't think a lesson we should draw from Tet is that the media should 
>>not
>>cover what is happening.  While I agree that some good things may occur in
>>Iraq, I think there's a civil war going on.
>>
>>Seems to me if you're in the middle of someone else's war, they've got 
>>more
>>to fight for than we do.  And if you're there for the wrong reason, how do
>>you answer the question 'Why are we there?'  If the question can't be
>>answered, public support for that war is going to wane.  I don't think 
>>that
>>question could be answered in Vietnam, and it isn't being answered in Iraq
>>either.
>>
>>I don't think we should crap on the troops sent off to war by politicians
>>and generals.  I think when the politicians and generals send off troops
>>for no good reason, the leaders deserve to get crapped on.  I think that's
>>what they did in Vietnam, and again in Iraq.  They put troops in 
>>situations
>>where victory might only be reached at a price that is obscene, and the
>>troops pay for it first, and then the nation as a whole.  They owe the
>>people an answer about what they're doing and why.
>>
>>Today the question is 'What do we do now?'  I think the only way out is 
>>for
>>us to give up our idea of permanent bases in Iraq, and undo the economic
>>decisions made by Paul Bremmer.  He privatized the Iraqi economy (such as
>>it is), basically into our hands.  I think the only way out for us is to
>>get other nations to join in stabilizing Iraq.  I don't think we can do it
>>alone, but it may happen if others get involved.   But no one's going to
>>help if they think it's just going to cement our control over Iraq.  Why
>>would they risk their kids for that?  How would they explain that to their
>>people?
>>
>>Well, I thought that was the question.  I just saw a report that Rice said
>>the election will not change our objective in Iraq, and that Iraq has to 
>>be
>>successful.  I don't know what that means or how we will get there.
>>
>>Anyway, that's my two cents.  Sorry if I rambled.
>>
>>Sunil
>>
>>
>>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
>>>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:47:27 -0800
>>>
>>>Sunil,
>>>
>>>I would think that the negative media towards our troops and how "they"
>>>dictate the battlefield would be a start.
>>>
>>>Take Care
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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