[Vision2020] The Auntie Establishment and Brother Carl Show(May28,
2006)
rvrcowboy
rvrcowboy at clearwire.net
Sun May 28 21:10:13 PDT 2006
Joe,
First of all I have to say; "Thank you" for serving your country, even when
you did not always agree with the situation in which you found yourself. I
agree with you that no one likes the ravages and horrors of any war, but
sometimes it is necessary. We may disagree on where the line is that makes
intervention in another country necessary on the part of our own government.
We did not invent Vietnam, it was a hotbed of evil and death long before we
entered the fray. Iraq was also under seige from within by a government
bent on killing and liquidating its own citizens, and others, who did not
conform.
I don't know if it it was necessary to try and stop the carnage, in either
case. Maybe it would have ended without us, who knows? I do know this; we
are there, our soldiers need our support and they need to know we are not
looking at them as though they were fools for joining a volunteer army. I
also know it is wrong to use anyone's death to further ones own political
agenda.
The families of those who have died, defending the actions of their own
country, right or wrong, need to know they are not being used for anyone's
private agenda. I truly believe some here have done just that, perhaps not
out of spite or meaning to cause harm, but have done it just the same.
Please remember, we all have our own beliefs and some of us believe the war
is justified just as much as others believe it is wrong. That does not give
any of us the right to impose our beliefs upon the other side by using body
counts listing the names of loved ones who died believing what they died for
was worth it.
You have a perfectly legitimate right to protest against this war and I
respect that. However, that protesting should be done in a manner that does
not use the dead as tools to achieve anyone's goal. I have a feeling that
you would fight to defend me if the situation warranted it, just as I would
you. Why then, would either of us justify insulting the memory of the
others family members as a tool to make our own individual points?
Thank you for your response. I am sorry you had to experience the horrors
of war as you did but some people live it their entire lives and sometimes
it is warranted to try to end that. That is always a tough decision. I
certainly do not pretend to know all the answers. Even if I did, half the
people would disagree with me, don't you agree? I know some people believe
it is wrong to feel patriotic or loyal toward their own country. I don't
feel that way at all but I still don't believe our country is always right
in the actions we take. We may not always be right but we still have done
more for the rest of the world than any other single nation in history.
That, I do believe.
God bless you for your service.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Auntie Establishment and Brother Carl
Show(May28, 2006)
> Dick;
>
> I served in 'nam - three times I was sent over there...I cleaned up what
> others destroyed, picked up bodies that were broken or simply parts of
> bodies, I cleaned weapons that had parts of people left on them, I went
> through many villages that were ravaged by both sides, I saw people who
were
> devistated and lost as to who to believe, trust or just wondered if they
> were going to die now or later and in what kind of horror chamber or was a
> simple bullet going to do them in. It took me years to not jump out of my
> skin even at the sound of a car backfiring or to go to a 4th of July
> "celebration" without memories flooding back in the form if nightmares and
> day-time sweats for week afterwards. (I have stopped going after
attending
> two of them in the last 25 years.)
>
> I saw/see no need for that "police action" and I see absolutely no need
for
> the action in Iraq, even though I have family and friends over there now.
I
> do NOT disagree with the soliders or their families, I disagree with the
> goverment that set out to do one thing while testifying to doing another.
>
> I am sorry for your friend's families and their loss...however, I will not
> stop protesting an action we have no need or right to be committing.
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen"
<thansen at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Auntie Establishment and Brother Carl Show
> >(May28, 2006)
> >Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 18:18:16 -0700
> >
> >I find it amusing that I often speak with servicemen who have been
> >stationed
> >in Iraq and they don't have this perception of the war at all. One told
me
> >just today that out of his entire battalion they lost 13 men in a year...
> >I
> >am sorry I can't remember how many men were in the battalion but the
> >percentage was quite low. I am not suggesting that losing any would be
> >acceptable but, according to him, more people are killed in drug related
> >incidents in New York City every month than have been killed in Iraq
since
> >the beginning of the war (Americans). He also said that 8 or 9 of those
> >killed in Iraq were killed as a result of accidents, mostly roll overs of
> >vehicles.
> >
> >I have heard several such stories from soldiers who have returned from
> >Iraq.
> >I know there are also stories that are not so great but, to be fair, I
> >think
> >we should listen to both sides.
> >
> >I know of at least two families who literally hate seeing their sons'
name
> >posted in the lists of those who have died in Iraq because they always
seem
> >to be posted by people who do not understand these men were proud to
serve
> >their country and did it voluntarily. Now their good names are being
used
> >to make them poster boys for those who protest the war. Their families
> >believe this is a shameless act of cowardice on behalf of those who
insist
> >on doing it.
> >
> >I am not judging, only telling you what I know to be true. I served in
the
> >military for six and a half years and spent time in SE Asia. I was proud
> >of
> >my service to my country despite being spit on and called names upon my
> >return to the country I had served and by the very people I was fighting
> >for. Most of those I served with were proud of their contribution to the
> >war effort and hated the protestors back home. Sure, there are always a
> >few
> >malcontents who whine and bitch about everything, just as in every job
> >situation, but most of us were not impressed by all the anti-war rhetoric
> >or
> >by those who used our good names, and the names of fallen compatriots, to
> >advance their own agendas.
> >
> >Now I see it happening here in the forum. Oh sure, as always, those who
> >post the names regullarly claim to be doing so out of respect for the
dead
> >and their families etc. but I wonder if that is their real motive,
> >especially given the general political persuasion here in the forum.
Only
> >those who do these things will ever really know the answer to that but I
> >suspect if they really search their hearts and are honest with
themselves,
> >they would likely have to admit, at least to themselves, their motives
are
> >less than pure.
> >
> >These are just some of the thoughts I have when I read certain things
> >written here. They are not facts and I see no reason to back up my
> >opinions
> >with documentation (as some will surely request). They are just my own
> >opinions, based on my real life experiences. No more - no less.
> >
> >Peace to all,
> >
> >Dick Sherwin
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >To: "Joan Opyr" <joanopyr at moscow.com>; "'Moscow Vision 2020'"
> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:52 PM
> >Subject: [Vision2020] The Auntie Establishment and Brother Carl Show (May
> >28, 2006)
> >
> >
> > > Greetings Visionaires -
> > >
> > > This week's show was excellent in many ways. To start, Auntie paid
> > > recognition to the recent establishment of the Greater Moscow Alliance
> >(or
> > > as she prefers - "Greater Moscow Alliance of Strippers", obviously
> >referring
> > > to a strong realtor contingent within the GMA). Bro "C" read a most
> > > appropriately reflective column concerning last week's virtually
> > > life-threatening and most certainly career-ending injury to Barbaro
(the
> > > odds-on favorite for last week's Preakness Stakes and ultimately horse
> > > racing's Triple crown) analogous to the death of the common man, a
> >victim
> >of
> > > the Bush administration.
> > >
> > > Again, a very special thanks to Auntie for her continued tribute to
> >those
> > > service men and women killed as a result of combat actions in Iraq.
May
> > > this necessity end soon.
> > >
> > > If for some reason you were unable to tune in and listen to this
week's
> > > show, you may download it from:
> > >
> > > http://www.AuntieEstablishmentandBrotherCarl.com
> > >
> > > When this week's show closed out with Father Guido Sarducci's "Bomb
> >Canada"
> > > routine, it reminded me of one of my all-time favorite routines of
> >Father
> > > Sarducci. I tore my home office apart looking for it, but I finally
> >found:
> > >
> > > "Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute University"
> > >
>
>http://www.AuntieEstablishmentandBrotherCarl.com/Five_Minute_University.mp3
> > >
> > > This week I have two song dedications:
> > >
> > > The first one goes out to both the Bush administration and our
Moscow's
> >own
> > > Anselm House management who, although currently situated in locations
a
> > > nation apart, by their deeds and professed convictions, maintain
> >addresses
> > > that can only be found on . . .
> > >
> > > "Self-Righteous Avenue"
> > >
>
>http://www.AuntieEstablishmentandBrotherCarl.com/Self_Righteous_Avenue.mp3
> > >
> > > The second song dedication goes out to all service men and women who
> >gave
> > > that final full measure. Here's hoping that they realize their love,
> > > dedication and loyalty will forever be recalled and remembered . . .
> > >
> > > "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder"
> > >
http://www.AuntieEstablishmentandBrotherCarl.com/RollCall_Up_Yonder.mp3
> > >
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >
> > > Pro patria,
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > > "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the
> >tranquil
> > > and steady dedication of a lifetime."
> > >
> > > --Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> > >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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