[Vision2020] Re: When Moscow Doubles - Transportation

Craine Kit kcraine at verizon.net
Wed May 24 19:35:45 PDT 2006 

Mark,

Thanks for the info. I’ll check it out.

kit

On May 24, 2006, at 11:01 AM, Mark Seman wrote:

> Kit & Nils, et al;
> I know City Council met last night with sidewalks on their agenda  
> and this
> might be too late for them to consider, BUT... I suggest people  
> interested
> in transportation and vehicle/pedestrian issues Google WOONERF and  
> read
> about this concept.  I has some very pleasant connotations that can  
> work as
> well in Moscow as it does elsewhere.  (It has been used in the  
> Netherlands
> in the 1970's.)  Here are some direct sites:
> http://www.ecocitycleveland.org/transportation/traffic/tools/ 
> woonerf.html
> http://www.architectureweek.com/2004/0505/building_1-2.html
> http://www.walkinginfo.org/de/curb1.cfm? 
> codename=32d&CM_maingroup=Traffic%20
> Calming
>
> Mark
>
> "No space can serve just a single function.  Conversely, in the United
> States we've perfected the art of getting two acres to do the work  
> of one."
> Lyle Bicknell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Nils Peterson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:03 PM
> To: Craine Kit; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Re: When Moscow Doubles - Transportation
>
>
> Kit, Thanks for a thoughtful reply, I'm enclosing it below. I  
> believe I
> replied to you and the list. I have learned this practice from  
> others on the
> list, and as a reader of the digest I appreciate this it greatly  
> when others
> are so kind, because I often dump the digests unread.
>
> Thanks also for a nice enumeration of your ideas about safe and  
> efficient, I
> agree its not all about cars. And I agree that the city block  
> structure that
> exists in the older parts of Moscow (with its various quirks) is the
> character of development we want When Moscow Doubles.
>
>
> On 5/23/06 10:30 AM, "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Nils,
>>
>> I don¹t know if you meant this to go just to me or to the whole 2020
>> list so I¹m replying just to you. You can repost it if you want.
>>
>> Sorry if I was a little too brief in my statements concerning getting
>> from point-A to point-B efficiently and safetly. The meaning of
>> "efficiently and safely" depends on the mode of transportation.
>>
>> For pedestrians, it means continuous sidewalks in good repair and
>> free of obstructions (such as ice, bushes, and menasing dogs) which
>> provide fairly direct and flat routes to various places (I prefer
>> walkways that are not along busy streets)
>>
>> For those in electric wheelchairs or other assistance devises, it
>> means the same thing as for pedestrians, with the addition of usable
>> curb-cut ramps and driveways that slope in such a way that one does
>> not tip over.
>>
>> For bicyclists, it means paved streets without too much traffic or
>> potholes or storm drains that are at the bottom of a drop off.
>>
>> For private motorized vehicles, it means having enough through routes
>> so traffic can be spread out rather than being concentrated on a few,
>> multiple lane roads. This is not to say every street has to go
>> straight across town, but that drivers have more than one or two
>> choices of how to get from one side of town to the other.
>>
>> For public transportation, it means having enough stops and frequent
>> pickups to make riding the bus is viable.
>>
>> For all of those, the culda-sac model doesn¹t work well. Neither does
>> the current practice of designing a subdivision to maximize the
>> number of structures on a site without leaving openings for that
>> development to connect with the next.
>>
>> What is needed is for the city to layout the streets, walkways, bike
>> routes, etc. and have development fit within that grid rather than
>> letting transportation just happen.
>>
>> Kit Craine
>>
>>
>> On May 22, 2006, at 4:35 PM, Nils Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> Kit, thanks for good use of the subject line:
>>>
>>> On 5/22/06 2:39 PM, " Craine Kit <kcraine at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Addressing the issues by single-site "improvements" (such
>>>> as the proposed 3rd Street Bridge) only shift the burden rather  
>>>> than
>>>> solving the problem.
>>>>
>>>> This approach does not produce a viable transportation system that
>>>> allows all residents to go from point-A to point-B efficiently and
>>>> safely. The only viable solution is to plan AND produce--in other
>>>> words, the City needs to make adequate streets happen.
>>>>
>>>> That means we, the taxpayers, will need to reach into our  
>>>> pockets and
>>>> pay the big bucks growing the transportation network will cost. Are
>>>> we willing and able?
>>>
>>> "All politics are local," and transportation planning is global,
>>> which seems
>>> to lead to a conflict.
>>>
>>> My concern with your post is the spin that may get put on "...viable
>>> transportation system that allows all residents to go from point- 
>>> A to
>>> point-B efficiently and safely."  The spin is an assumption of
>>> _how_ one
>>> does that -- the ready assumption is private automobile.
>>>
>>> I'm just back from a week spent in downtown Bellevue, where all the
>>> streets
>>> are 5-6 lanes wide and the blocks are longer than Moscow's. Its
>>> efficient.
>>> I've also spent time in Scotland, where the medieval streets are
>>> the extreme
>>> opposite- narrow, winding, bad corners, etc. Driving is so
>>> difficult that
>>> people don't do as much of it. But busses are good. And walking is
>>> good.
>>>
>>> So, what are the touchstones of a "viable transportation system?"
>>> What are
>>> the core values? What are the tradeoffs we are willing to state,
>>> embody in
>>> zoning, etc?
>>>
>>
>
>
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