[Vision2020] Re: Only the short sighted think Death Penalty MustBe Aboli...

Sun May 7 19:08:56 PDT 2006

Matt et. al.

Please name a dictatorship in a nation that has never executed someone as a
means of eliminating enemies and maintaining control over its citizens.

Even the use of the death penalty in the USA has had examples that resemble
the tactics of a dictatorship.  The questionable Rosenberg
executions, occurring during the excesses of McCarthyism, terrified citizens
of the USA that if they were associated in any way with anything remotely
resembling "communism," however innocent, that they might face the wrath of
the state, which many were under Senator Joe McCarthy's excessive campaign,
in ways less egregious than execution, but ruinous to their lives
nonetheless.

In the meantime, I stand by what I said: the death penalty is a tool of
dictatorships.

You've got thousands of years of human history to reference to find one
example that might show I am wrong.

Of course, if 90+% of all dictatorships used the death penalty, this
outcome still supports what I asserted.

But please, I beg of you, find just one example that will support your
objection and give us the source!

Ted Moffett

On 5/4/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> Some great points, however, you lost me on the death penalty being a tool
> for dictarship. Isn't the sole purpose to kill the bad guys? I doubt that
> most Americans feel their rights being infringed by the death penalty.
> Well
> at least the ones not doing the horrific crimes.
>
> MD
>
>
> >From: "Ted Moffett" <starbliss at gmail.com>
> >To: "ToeKneeTime at aol.com" <ToeKneeTime at aol.com>
> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Only the short sighted think Death Penalty
> >MustBe Aboli...
> >Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 00:30:07 -0700
> >
> >Tony et. al.
> >
> >Anyone who has committed a crime deserving of the death penalty can be
> >given
> >life in prison without parole instead.  So then there is no recidivism,
> >unless it occurs in prison, the prisoner escapes, or somehow the laws
> >change
> >to allow the prisoner out.  And please don't carp about the costs of life
> >imprisonment... if dollars and cents quantified justice we'd let MBAs
> from
> >Harvard determine who gets a quality trial and who does not, based on how
> >much media time could be sold for the trial coverage.  And death penalty
> >cases are very costly with the appeals process, etc.
> >
> >With life imprisonment without parole, if a mistake was made there is
> time
> >to correct the injustice.  With the death penalty enforced if someone is
> >later found innocent...
> >
> >Justice is not cheap.  If you want cheap justice, move to China.   You
> >might
> >find that your Christian beliefs (aggressive public opposition to forced
> >abortions) and lifestyle draw the attention of the Chinese Communist
> Party,
> >who can have you executed in short order (trumped up charges?), with
> >minimal
> >rights to a fair trial or access to an appeal, etc.
> >
> >The death penalty is a prime symptom of a dictatorship...Or is it one of
> >the
> >prime tools of a dictatorship?  Both?
> >
> >The death penalty in any nation is a tool that can be used to impose
> >tyranny, even if it exists within a system that at this moment appears to
> >respect justice, fairness and the rights of the individual.  This
> potential
> >for abuse alone justifies banning the death penalty.  I don't trust the
> >state to determine who gets to live or die based on a flawed legal
> system,
> >nor do I trust that in the future the state may not have the machinery of
> >the death penalty high jacked for the sake of
> >military/economic/political/ideological "special interests."
> >
> >Support for the death penalty is symptomatic of those
> >who, despite any appearances as critics of government regulation, are
> >authoritarians at heart, who think the government should have the
> ultimate
> >say in the life and death of human beings.  Talk about an egregious
> >overextension of government power...!!!!  I can't imagine any power more
> >egregious.  Well, OK, Winston (1984) was crushed as a human being by the
> >state to make a statement that the state has the power to destroy (as in
> >destroy the spirit, beliefs and love a human being followed) a human
> being
> >who opposes said state, while they are alive, the point being this is
> worse
> >than having the state simply execute its opponents, because it is a
> >destruction of the very freedom seeking individualistic humanity in the
> >soul
> >of a human being that constitutes the essence of the opposition of the
> >individual to the power of the state...
> >
> >You might want to consider the decision by former Illinois Republican
> >Governor Ryan regarding the death penalty in Illinois, and also the work
> of
> >the Innocence Project:
> >
> >http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5-10.html
> >
> >http://www.innocenceproject.org/
> >
> >Ted Moffett
> >
> >On 5/3/06, ToeKneeTime at aol.com <ToeKneeTime at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>  ACS,
> >>
> >>No, no, you misunderstand.  I did not say that executing the innocent
> was
> >>justified as a deterrent.  I was simply pointing out that any system
> >>administered by fallible humans is going to result in some percentage of
> >>errors.  I don't believe that we should respond to this unavoidable
> >>consequence by dumping the entire program.  Your inclination to do
> exactly
> >>that is understandable but potentially VERY costly.  I believe that the
> >>end
> >>result would be a far GREATER loss of life do to recidivism.
> >>
> >>Hope this sheds more light on my position.
> >>
> >>Best,  --Tony
> >>
> >>_____________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
> >_____________________________________________________
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