[Vision2020] Council Far From Anti-Growth
Chris Storhok
cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us
Wed Mar 15 14:37:38 PST 2006
I find this discussion interesting as it cuts to the heart of my profession.
Keeping the dollar in circulation within a community is one of the toughest
yet most critical aspects of economic development.
For example, when my family and I lived in Latah County we purchased almost
all of our food items from Moscow with the exception of runs to Potlatch for
items that we ran out of and needed immediately (baking soda, sugar,
charcoal, etc.) The Potlatch grocery store was just too expensive to make
monthly supply runs too (besides both my wife and I worked in Moscow and
would just pick our supplies up there). We shopped at the nursery in
Potlatch and the drug store in Potlatch, almost everything else was
purchased in Moscow.
However, when J.C. Penny's closed in the Palouse Mall we had to make
runs to either Spokane or Coeur d' Alene for clothes for my wife and
daughters since none of them wore Size 1 in the latest fashions that were
cool for college kids and we sure the heck were not going to pay Bon (now
Macy's) prices for clothes that wore out anyway. We never really shopped
in Lewiston or Clarkston since it was just as easy to travel to Coeur d'
Alene or Spokane.
Moscow shopping was enjoyable and easy; most stores were well
stocked with their specialty items, and prices were competitive. I loved
the customer service we received from almost every store in town, and I have
only fond memories now of that type of service....I even loved working with
Moscow car dealers and auto repair shops.
No one has heard of customer service in Fairbanks, shopping here is
just plain hell, everything is at least 30% higher than Moscow, finding a
sales clerk is impossible and forget competent workers as they all are
working within the tourist industry and getting paid better than at Safeway,
Wal-Mart, etc.) My wife and I shop at the Safeway in North Pole (paying
even more than Fairbanks) because customer service actually exists and their
meats/seafood guy stocks the store with cuts and seafood of such high
quality that I am more than willing to pay the higher prices. I love our
Friday seafood shipments, we get both king ($5/lb) and dungeonous crab
($3.5/lb) that is fresh and never frozen - I have never tasted crab this
good. (Alright, there is one nice advantage about living up here...the
seafood)
Chris Storhok
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:43 PM
To: deco at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Council Far From Anti-Growth
I find it easy to shop in Moscow most of the time, and while there are
sometimes things I can't get here that I have to go online for, there are a
lot of things here I can't get most other places.
For example, my son wears Converse High-Tops in an 11, but he likes the more
offbeat styles, not the limited selection at Footlocker. Enter Zappos or
Ebay online. On the other hand, he and I cruise Bookpeople every month for
a magazine we can't find anywhere else, and when my friend from the
Tri-Cities and I went shopping this last weekend, it was at Bookpeople again
that she found an obscure (and discounted) title about a lost Caravaggio
painting.
I bought my funky green-and-white Raleigh cruiser at Paradise Creek,
replaced the stone in my wedding ring at Gem State (the cat chewed out the
diamond; I will not, however, replace the cat), and recently got something
framed at Floyd Peterson's and Katie Beard's frameshop by Tie-Dye
Everything. The latter I had not known about, but a comically disastrous
turn at Michael's led me there. I got better work for less, without the
snottiness and inexperience of the Michael's framing department manager.
Just last weekend, I bought stuff at the Co-Op, Spence, Pets Are People,
Too, and Tri-State. I could have gotten most of it at Wal-Mart, but why
deal with the crowds, the shoddy merchandise, and the largely uncaring
attitude of the clerks? I don't think I paid more, and I got to chat with
Kara at Pets Are People, Too, who always remembers my darling cat, Finley
(whose name means "one who eats diamonds" in Spanish, I think). It's a
privilege to shop locally and a concession to go online (for example, I
couldn't find a vintage two-track Druecke scoremaster deluxe cribbage board
here, but that's why we have eBay. I like to think I make up for it at the
One World and Sangria).
There's no great Econ 101 lesson here, but I think there's a terrific
example of what it means to live in a small town. I don't feel at all
deprived living here. What would feel like a deprivation would be going
throughout the day without those small-town opportunities to meet, greet,
and support my neighbors. I'd miss them, I'd miss their businesses, and I
think they'd miss me, personally and economically, if I played shop-jockey
online or skipped over Moscow to OD on one-stop shopping elsewhere.
And yes, I feel that way even when clerks mistakenly call me . . . sigh . .
. "Kelly."
keely
From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Council Far From Anti-Growth
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:22:27 -0800
John, Kit, et al,
We do most of our shopping in Moscow basically except for the following:
1. Costco
2. The Internet for items that are not available here or are very grossly
overpriced. In fact we scan the internet then try to buy or special order
items here.
3. Businesses with poor, rude, and or clueless customer service. We have
had some real horror shows with local businesses.
With regard to 3 above: Perhaps the Moscow Chamber and/or City could
encourage some workshops for businesses that focus on customer service and
encourage all local small businesses to attend.
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>
To: "John Dickinson" <johnd at moscow.com>
Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "'Donovan Arnold'"
<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Council Far From Anti-Growth
>As someone who is born and raised in Moscow (and been around much longer
>than Area Man), I've heard the claim that Moscow is anti- business and/or
>anti-growth for decades. That includes the last 16 years when we had
>conservative, Republican mayors. So I don't think the labels have any
>meaning when applied to the current council, which only been in charge for
>a few months.
>
>As long as I can remember, people have gone to Spokane or Lewiston to shop.
>Sometimes it's for a better selection or a better deal. Others, it's an
>excuse to get out of town for a while and see the big city. Does that make
>the city government unfriendly towards business or growth?
>
>Perhaps--instead of just claiming unfriendliness due to government or
>regulations--we should ask:
>
>a) Is Moscow really unfriendly or is that just a nasty rumor?
>b) If there are factors outside the city that influence the perception of
>friendliness?
>
>I have a suggestion to start a conversation on b). Once-upon-a-time I had
>a conversation with a businessman who had considered locating his company
>in Moscow. He decided not to because--in his words--YOU CAN'T GET THERE
>FROM ANYWHERE.
>
>
>Kit Craine
>
>On Mar 15, 2006, at 8:51 AM, John Dickinson wrote:
>
>>Visionaries-
>>
>>
>>
>>When I talk with businesses about Moscow and friendliness, the
>>conversations are more about where people buy things. I have had several
>>business owners tell me that they thought Moscow was not especially
>>friendly because so many people travel to Lewiston or Spokane to buy a
>>car or use the internet to purchase books, CDs, or clothes. The benefit
>>of either sales or property taxes is dwarfed by the effect of buying
>>local. Being business friendly is a community issue, not simply a
>>government one. Buy something today in Moscow.
>>
>>
>>
>>I am sure that no members of our community would like a City Council that
>>rubber stamped everything that came before it. To question proposals is
>>an important function of the council. For example, the proposed
>>development just across the state line is very large. It would
>>essentially double the commercial space in the Moscow area. I don't
>>believe that growth of this magnitude is planned growth. If we doubled
>>the number of houses in Moscow, or doubled the number of students at UI,
>>or doubled anything overnight - we'd have significant problems.
>>
>>
>>
>>I enjoy reading V2020; perhaps the next V2020 social activity could be a
>>shopping spree from one end of town to the other.
>>
>>
>>
>>John Dickinson
>>
>>Your city council member.
>>
>>
>>
>>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-
>>bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:38 AM
>>To: g. crabtree; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Council Far From Anti-Growth
>>
>>
>>
>>Gary brings up an excellent point! Moscow's city government has been very
>>anti-business. It has opposed businesses wanting to develop in the East,
>>and West. It has opposed Walmart, Home Depot, and other businesses coming
>>into the area. It has done nothing to help many local businesses that are
>>going under. But not only does it oppose businesses in Moscow, it is also
>>fighting efforts for jobs and businesses developing in Latah and in the
>>Pullman/Moscow corridor on the Pullman side.
>>
>>The only place Moscow allows a business to be located in downtown, which
>>does not have enough parking for many types of businesses, or in an
>>already existing location which is not properly suited for the business.
>>
>>_DJA
>>
>>"g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>I think that it's fairly safe to say that when a council meddles wit! h
>>how
>>many square feet a business can be, by what percentage it may expand, and
>>what sort of a "living wage " it will pay, it's no friend to business.
>>While
>>I am reluctantly willing to take Mr. Stout at his word that he's pro
>>growth
>>and pro business, I sure haven't seen or heard anything from him or the
>>council as a whole that makes me believe it to be the case. To say that
>>you're pro business as long as you pay a given wage, sell the correct
>>product from the approved country,are just the right size in exactly the
>>right location, and are owned by the proper people is to encourage
>>development a mile or two across the border in Whitman county. Perhaps
>>those
>>are the people our McC(A)ouncil and mayor represents.?
>>
>>G. Crabtree
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tom Hansen"
>>To: "Moscow Vision 2020"
>>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:01 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Counci! l Far From Anti-Growth
>>
>>
>> > >From today's (March 13, 2006) Daily News with a special thnks to
>> > >Councilman
>> > Robert Stout -
>> >
>> >
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>> >
>> > Council far from anti-growth
>> >
>> > I have been somewhat surprised by the amount of false information
>>being
>> > propagated about the new Moscow City Council's attitude towards
>>growth and
>> > development in our community. The mantra describing our efforts
>>seems to
>> > be
>> > "no growth" and "anti-business". As far as my personal attitude,
>>that
>> > couldn't be further from the truth. I recognize the benefits of
>>having a
>> > thriving business community and will always foster that. However,
>>I also
>> > recognize such things as a living wage, some regulations on
>>business and
>> > developments, and supporting growth that protects Moscow's
>>quality of
>> > life.
>> >
>> > When individuals in our community repeat the no-growth rhetoric
>>there is a
>> > negative connotation that does not help our community thrive and
>>prosper.
>> > The new council has been in office for about 60 days. We have not
>> > approved
>> > any ordinances that could reasonably be construed as anti-
>>business or
>> > no-growth. The concept of the recently passed large retail
>>ordinance has
>> > been in the works for quite some time. The premise of this
>>ordinance is
>> > not
>> > to discourage large retail establishments from locating in our
>>community,
>> > but rather bring them in as an equal partner in protecting the
>>quality of
>> > life of our city.
>> >
>> > I was not elected to represent any one interest in this community. I
>> > wasn't
>> > elected to represent the realtors, the MCA, the chamber of
>>commerce, the
>> > University of Idaho community, or downtown business. I was
>>elected to
>> > represent our community as a ! whole and make informed and fair
>>decisions
>> > that
>> > will keep our community economically and socially sustainable. I
>>intend
>> > to
>> > do that and hope you will join me in my efforts.
>> >
>> > Robert C. Stout
>> > Moscow
>> >
>> >
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>> >
>> > Thank you, Councilman Stout.
>> >
>> > Instead of alleging fault where no fault exists, I challenge the
>>people of
>> > Moscow to support and evaluate our city council openly and fairly.
>> >
>> > If it is felt that the council could improve in certain areas,
>>provide
>> > constructive criticism. At the same time, if it is felt that the
>>council
>> > is
>> > performing their responsibilities in an exemplary manner, tell them.
>> >
>> > It's an old adage, people, and it has worked for limitless
>>generations:
>> >
>> > "Don't tell me why I can't. Tell me how I can."
>> >
>> > Seeya round tow! n, Moscow.
>> >
>> > Tom Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>>to change
>> > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>> > - Unknown
>> >
>> >
>> > _____________________________________________________
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>> >
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>http://www.fsr.net
>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Travel
>>Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
>
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