[Vision2020] meeting Doug at Trinityfest

Thu Jun 22 12:15:27 PDT 2006

Yes, Doug, you were cordial when I came over last year and introduced 
myself.  No, I was not wearing a badge.  Why would I?  I was there out of 
curiosity, not as a member of your community.  I don't choose to be 
identified with you, your elders, your church, or your Trinity Festival.  As 
a matter of fact, I can't help but think that the humility and repentence 
with which your leadership ought to conduct itself would preclude a 
divisive, intrusive celebration amongst those you've so offended.

But I'll be tall, slim, and blonde before that ever happens, so I'm not 
holding my breath and checking the mirror . . .

keely

PS -- Please, for God's sake and hers, stop talking about Jackie Woolf.  
Whatever difficulties she has or has had ought to be something you discuss 
on your knees, in private, before God -- not on a public email forum, and 
not in such a mocking way.

From: heirdoug at netscape.net
To: vision2020 at moscow.com, metzler at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] (Formally known as:Photos Tell All) Now changing 
thread topic to:"Now for something entirely different to make Michael happy 
and stick to the unpublished norms!"
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:06:46 -0400

Mike,

Does this help? I would like to change topics, sort of. You made a statement 
below that I thought was curious. You said, "As one kirker explained, Vision 
2020 is a slew of shit and I was an idiot for even talking to the people who 
post to it."

I was wondering if you were re-phrasing what I had privatelly talked to you 
over the phone last year when I was trying to get your perspective on all of 
this. I think the conversation was about Jackie Wolfe. I had mentioned that 
maybe you should go easy on here because of her frail condition. You said 
you were just trying to understand all of the players.

You also mentioned that the mission you were on to infiltrate the 
"intolerista" web zone would soon come to fruition or something like that. 
That's when I mentioned that Blind 2020 was similar to a septic system in 
that one needs to "airate the sludge from time to time in order for the good 
bactiria to break down the crap and turn it back into clean water and 
fertilizer." I think those were my exact words.

If I got any thing wrong or you wish to discuss this as an apologetic 
discussion about fertilizer and the gospel (sort of along the lines of 
death, burial and resurection.) Would that fit the mentality and spiritual 
condition of "the typical evangelical Christian" as you called them.

lemeno, Doug!

PS. I didn't see Keely wearing a Trinity fest badge when we cordially met 
that night.

Rob,
For a little background: You directed your insults my direction not long
ago, but in more direct fashion. You and I were friends. I had you over to
my house for dinner. I employed you and we worked together a bit. We
talked about business, your life aspirations, your current work, your
history. I offered you nothing but kindness and hospitality. Then one day I
started a web site and I was criticizing your pastor's slander of another
minister-continuing an already public discussion. You jumped on without any
notice or private communication and began mocking me, ridiculing sincere
comments, and intentionally breaking the very rules I laid out for posting
to my private web site. This response here is the first time you have
treated me like a human being, and you have not initiated any private
correspondence with me throughout all this. Not only is this not Christian
behavior, this is not sociological normal within stable civilizations
generally speaking; i.e., the 'pagans' usually do far better than this.
It is not hard to see the Kirk edge here either, albeit in more subtle,
creative form. This is a community, public, forum; this is not a three way
call between three junior-high jocks. When posting, folks make sure the
content of the post is coherent-which is politeness to any reader trying to
figure out if there is something generally of interest to read. When
posting, folks also insure that the content of the post matches Subject
title for convenience to the general readership. Folks are also polite
enough to choose a different subject title when they decide to post on
something entirely different than the current topic of discussion. You and
your associates know all of this, which is why you are posting the way you
do, intentionally breaking all of these norms. You do so not to illustrate
a productive point or to encourage anyone to truth or good deeds; rather,
you do so to vandalize a forum that you consider a threat and a nuisance.
As one kirker explained, Vision 2020 is a slew of shit and I was an idiot
for even talking to the people who post to it. Wilson has sought to get it
exterminated, and refers to this forum as "moonbats" and "Purblind." Most
kirkers will at least call it Venom2020. I can't speak for others, but I
know that I would prefer profanity and name calling to someone high-jacking
the threads that I tried to generate, particularly when I know it is because
they have no respect for me and do not like what I am talking about. None of
you even experiment in offering kindness or understanding to your opponents,
nor do you give simple rational discourse a chance. I was of course
referring all of the kirkers engaging in this new practice.
If you think that the arguments Tom and J Ford have presented regarding the
pictures are unsound, feel free to point this out in a way that gives other
people a reason to read your posting under the thread generated by these
arguments. And again, I'm sad to see you spend your time on this list in
such a way when there is currently an apologetic discussion about submission
and the gospel going on. That would typically be far more interesting to the
typical evangelical Christian.
I hope that helps explain. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Michael

Mike

Who did I insult?

Jackie provided a link to the Trinity Fest pictures on the Trinity Fest
web-page . . .they are fun pictures, and not very controversial.

Rob

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