[Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

Thu Jun 15 17:44:37 PDT 2006

Yes, Joe, I would say that Heather's post is indeed a good one.
I just hope she stays around V2020 and I can finally understand something
about the women of that church.....BL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; <london at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

> You have to admit, Bill, that this is a pretty good post!
>
> Please come back, Heather!
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- Heather Linn <heatherlinn at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> =============
> Mr. London,
>
> I had trouble telling whether you were asking real questions but I'll do
my
> best to answer in all seriousness.
>
> " Does that assume husbands never make a mistake?" I feel silly even
> responding to this. No. No. No. I am conviced Russians are a fun summer
> read. Nate prefers Pratchett. He is wrong.
>
> "Does that mean you are explicitly telling your daughters that they are
> inferior (in skill, talent, judgement, etc)?"
> Same as above. No. No. No. Nate and I hope to give our daughters (and son)
> the most thorough education available and opportunties to excell in
> academics, athlectics, design -- wherever they may be gifted. Americans
are
> so bad at heiarchies, they can't help but confuse responsibility for
> ontological or essential superiority. Because we like the Apostle Paul,
> people decide that we're thoughtless doormats.
>
> Of course, if we do everything that I would  like to do for our daughters
> there may be some downsides. It might be tough for them to find husbands
who
> aren't 'inferior' to them. And if they do find men strong enough to make
> them happy, the poor boys will have their hands full.
>
> The misconceptions I've read on this forum about Chritst Church woman are
> often astounding. We're far from a cookie cut batch. When I met my
husband,
> I had just surfed my first pro contest and was on my way to Ireland to
watch
> a girlfriend receive her doctorate. A good friend of mine (who also had
> coffee with Keely) received a double masters from Duke in law and
divinity,
> and when she decided to pass on the country's power firms in order to
settle
> down in Moscow, she didn't think she was taking the 'inferior' path.
>
> Anyway, I'll be signing off from V2020 at the end of the day since I'm too
> busy to keep posting and don't generally find this forum conducive to
> community betterment. I've enjoyed interacting with many of you face to
face
> and I hope to do so more in the future.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Heather
>
> >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
> >To: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:40:00 -0700
> >
> >Heather:
> >First, many thanks for posting to V2020 (really).  The Christ Church
women
> >have been often discussed on V2020, and I am glad you are speaking
directly
> >to us now...... which brings me to my second point: I am trying to
> >understand the "wife submits to husband" thing.
> >Can you explain that to me?  Does that assume husbands never make a
> >mistake?
> >Does that mean you are explicitly telling your daughters that they are
> >inferior (in skill, talent, judgement, etc)?
> >BL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:38 PM
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> >
> >
> > > First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad to
> >hear
> > > that she enjoyed herself
> > > as did we. However, I'd like to point out that there seems to be an
> > > alternative she's missed or at least is unable to consider. Perhaps
not
> >all
> > > information out there in V2020 land and the blog world
> > > concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands is true. Perhaps
we,
> > > women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent and sincere in
their
> > > faith", have a better grasp on our own situations and lives than those
> >who
> > > don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to endure" our husbands and
our
> > > theology  but rather enjoy (love) them both. Why would "intelligent"
> >women
> > > love living with domineering patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not
> >actually
> > > intelligent. Maybe we don't really love them. Or, the option you
haven't
> > > been willing to consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all.
> >Longshot,
> >I
> > > know. But it is possible.
> > >
> > > We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical
feminism,
> > > outspokenness against Doug
> > > Wilson, and [your] sharp theological disagreements with Christ
Church."
> >I've
> > > been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has
been
> > > asserted, we don't all mind when people
> > > disagree. In fact, it can make community life a lot more interesting
and
> > > fun.
> > >
> > > Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the
same
> >page
> > > as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like them.
> > > Mine's even funny.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Heather Wilson
> > >
> > >
> > > >keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > > >Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006
> > > >Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> > >
> > >
> > > >I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's
> >point
> > > >that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate enough
> >to
> >be
> > > >shepherded by him.
> > >
> > > >I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful women
> >from
> > > >Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as bad
and
> >mean
> > > >as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do what mature
> >women
> > > >do -- spend some time with me and find out for themselves.  And I am
> > > >grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth expressed, and the
> >trust
> > > >presumed; I
> > > hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have absolutely
> > > >nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of
them --
> >as
> > > >much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are willing to
> > > >endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical worldview it
> >produces
> > > >that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is for women.
> > >
> > > >But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my
> >Biblical
> > > >feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp theological
> > > >disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact, that's
great.
> >I
> > > >only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no doubt at all that
it
> > > >would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and stimulating
discussion,
> > > >because these women, like most of the folks at Christ Church, are
> > > >reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.  For every
unloving
> > > >Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with here, I know there
are
> > > >several more, men and women, who love Christ and are willing to love
me
> >in
> > > >His name.   I feel he same way.
> > >
> > > >That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of
Wilson's
> > > >world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll
in
> >the
> > > >theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that
real
> > > >people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse conduct.
> > > >Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the
Gospel --
> >to
> > > >offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that lies
> >within
> > > >me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I hope to
offer
> >a
> > > >reason for the anger and concern that lies within me regarding the
> >Kirk,
> > > >and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and respect to the
sincere
> >and
> > > >offered clear, truth-building rebuke when needed.
> > >
> > > >And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her
> > > >sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.
> >(And
> > > >it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)
> > >
> > > >keely
> > >
> > >
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> >
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