[Vision2020] shamelessness

Fri Jun 9 08:02:31 PDT 2006

Gary, you ignorant slut*, you write: "In a nutshell, I believe that your motivations are to exploit this unfortunate issue for your own political gain."

What is the "political gain"? How do I benefit, politically, by suggesting that there might be more to the Sitler story than meets the eye? Again, this is just the same-old, unsupported song that you've been singing to me for a while now. Provide some support for your claim. I can just say the same thing about you but it isn't clear where that will get us.

You also write: "the facts in this matter seem to show that nobody "kept quiet about criminal acts." The proper authorities were, in fact, notified in a timely manner." How do you know about the "facts of the matter" in this case? The main fact is that you believe Doug Wilson and I don't. I want to find out what he knew and when. That seems reasonable.

Lastly, no you did not detect "a peevish tone" in my last post. You annoy me but you no longer make me angry. I understand that, lacking arguments and evidence, insults are the only rhetorical devices that you have left.

Best, Joe

* This is a reference to an old Saturday Night Live episode and was intended as a joke, not an insult with "a peevish tone." I was trying to convey a witty, hip tone, with a slight tinge of annoyance. I don't think that Crabtree is a slut.

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote: 

=============
Joe, do I detect a peevish tone to your reply? How out of character for you. 
It was not my intention to be vague or cryptic, please allow me to sooth 
your ruffled feathers by making myself a bit more plain. In a nutshell, I 
believe that your motivations are to exploit this unfortunate issue for your 
own political gain. You have seen how well jumping on the anti CC, NSA,CRF, 
etc band wagon worked for "Citizen Ament" and you figured "what the heck" it 
might  work for me too. If nothing else, it plays well to a certain seamy 
element that, I'm sure, you consider your base here on the 20/20 forum.

In my initial post I asked you what I thought was a simple question. I 
didn't "stick up" for anyone. The facts in this matter seem to show that 
nobody "kept quiet about criminal acts." The proper authorities were, in 
fact, notified in a timely manner. Should you wish to speculate in public 
about my motivations in this matter, knock yourself out. I am fairly 
confident that no amount of ugly innuendo on your part will change the 
opinion of folks who actually know me, and will simply be seen as one more 
example of your juvenile lashing out at someone who has the unmitigated gall 
to disagree with your poorly thought out platform. I anxiously await your 
next jape/threat, insult or wounded expression of indignation and remain 
faithfully,

G. Crabtree

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] shamelessness

What are my motivations, Gary? What is my political agenda? What are my 
religious and political views, for that matter? You tell me since you seem 
to know so much about me, even though we've never met.

And what are your motivations, Gary, for sticking up for men who keep quiet 
about criminal acts against children? Should I speculate in public about 
those?

Each of us can make these same sweeping, dismissive claims in an effort to 
discredit the words of others with whom we disagree. They work no less 
against you than they do against me. I'm just unwilling to use such cheap 
shots in public discourse, so you have an advantage along these lines.

If a local Catholic priest had information about a child predator that he 
failed to share with local law enforcement, I would be just as critical of 
him. I can promise you that. I have a child that I am obligated to protect 
as well as information that others in my community are more concerned about 
keeping their own indiscretions quiet than they are about public safety. 
That is motivation enough in this case, I think.

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:

=============
As one of the club members, I would have expected nothing less. A quick
question for you. Why when crimes are committed by people other than
members of CC, NSA, Trinity Reformed, etc: do you not ask the same questions
of the Catholic priest? The Methodist minister? The Mormon deacon? The only
time the leaders of a faith community are called to question and asked to
answer for their members is when this one group is involved? Or is it your
contention that the only unpleasantness that occurs in our community flows
from this source exclusively? At the risk of arousing your not
inconsiderable, hair trigger ire, I would suggest that there is a bit more
at work here than your noble concern for who is and is not "above and beyond
the laws of our community."

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] shamelessness

Some of us like Michael's posts. I encourage him to continue.
--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:

=============
Mr. Metzler, please give it a rest. A sorrowful event has occurred and you
are defiantly not making it any better. The only people who are hanging on
your every word are already members of your club. I am afraid that all the
finger pointing that you have been doing of late is only serving to make you
appear obsessed and deranged. Why don't you take a month or two off and see
if you can get over what ever slight, real or imagined, that you think you
have received from your former pastor. Perhaps during that time you will
find a more productive way to utilize your time. Breathe in, hold it,
release slowly, repeat.

G. Crabtree
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:18 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] shamelessness

  Wilson Writes: "Michael, you are the emotional equivalent of a sucking
chest wound"

  Thank you very much for your very helpful comments here Mr. Wilson.
Instead of confessing that your entire point about the "victims" was refuted
by my response, you just change the subject to "posting private emails."
That's an old issue, and not one nearly so interesting as your current
public slander against me and the person who wrote the announcement.  So
perhaps we should stick on target; after all, your emails were
confrontational, and you certainly knew I would be posting them. They were
also crucial to show that I was willing and eager to make any correction to
the post before it gained a large readership; you arrogantly declined to
help me do this, more concerned about hurting me than protecting anyone.
I'm getting dizzy Mr. Wilson.  Just what is your accusation against me?
Your bringing the victims into this just in your public Vision 2020 posts
(unnecessarily) is despicable, and I would have never dreamed of doing such
a hurtful thing.  You originally claimed that my behavior was horrible and
immoral because I dare post an announcement like I did at all; you
supposedly knew this because the victims asked me to pull everything off my
web site.  But this only revealed your ignorance of the nature of the
victim's concerns and their request (or else just further deceit); this also
demonstrated that your attack on me for merely posting the announcement is
ridiculous.  You are making a fool of your self Mr. Wilson, and although I
would like you to show the world what kind of man you really are, I am still
committed to getting the "victims" off the public square. So please stop
now.

  We are in the process of gathering our stuff and kids to go to my brother
in law's wedding in Colorado. I haven't even finished reading your last post
about me yet.  I will be responding further as I am able.  I wish I was able
to respond far more than I already have.

  Thank you

  Michael Metzler

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