[Vision2020] Putz

Thu Jul 20 20:39:40 PDT 2006

Hey Deacon,
        So "any idiot" could have taken the Indians to the Series that year? 
  Tell that to Joe Torre who basically has all the money/players and everything else in the world behind him.  It's never ever automatic.  Hargrove isn't a genius I'll grant you but he was far from an idiot to have the record he had in Cleveland there for a few years. 

  Also, on Ichiro, he has had over 200 hits every year, Hargrove or no Hargrove, no one nearly broke anyone.  I don't think a 200 hit season means anyone "nearly broke."

  And Lopez cooled off when he quit batting in the number two hole for sure. But they had to do something about Beltre',didn't they? He was going nowhere fast, and with the money he's making they've got to get some hits out of him....and they did. I don't see any problem at all with asking Lopez to sac bunt in close games if the matchups are right.  It's more of a sure way of getting a runner in position than swinging away is. I think small ball is the way to go a lot of the time. 

  Also, I don't know about hows and whys of  the innings that Putz and Soriano pitched and I don't think you do either.  There were likely factors that we don't know about on that deal. Teams don't always like to tell all about who's available when, it tips their hand.  There could have been tired arms, minor injuries, etc. involved in that deal. I know Soriano has been hurt and has had a hard time getting back. 

   I agree with you about Everett, but who are they gonna DH? Willie Bloomquist or something? No one else that's a possible right now is exactly setting the world on fire with their hitting.

   I didnt like the move for Everett to begin with because the guy's wound a little too tightly even if he is hitting, he's certifiable.  They did trade for Perez though, so maybe he eventually will take up some of the slack against lefties. 

  But the real question is who would be better than Hargrove? The bench coach for the rest of the season or someting? And then what? Look around for who? Bring Bobby Valentine back from Japan?  I don't know...new coaches are a crap shoot too, so who knows if they'd really be any better off with somebody different. 
  TL

  "Those 'technicalities' have a name, Bobby.  They're called the Bill of Rights."
                                                                                                 ---Hank Hill

Deacon James <deaconblues42 at gmail.com> wrote:
  Tim,

That call was terrible. I agree with you.

As far as Hargrove goes, he has made terrible decisions. Sure he's been to the World Series, but any idiot could have managed a team like that to the World Series. Here's a few reasons why I think Hargrove ought to be canned: 

- When he first came on as manager, Ichiro was just coming off of his 262 hit season. So what does Hargrove do? He asks Ichiro to take a few more pitches, not swing as much on the first pitch, and try to walk more. What the heck? Ichiro did what he was told, and it screwed his timing up for half the season. Hargrove nearly broke Ichiro! What sane person would come into a new clubhouse and tell the best hitter in the league how to hit?

- For the first two months of the season, Jose Lopez was the best hitter on the team, often leading the team in RBI and HR. However, he also led the majors in sacrifice bunts. He was asked to sac bunt more than a pitcher. There was even one game in which he was asked to sac bunt in 4 ABs. 

- Aggressive base running can be a good thing, but aggressively running into outs isn't.

- In the two extra inning games in Toronto this last weekend, there were 15 innings of relief pitching by the Mariners. Rafael Soriano and J.J. Putz, the two best pitchers on the team, combined for 1 inning pitched. If it's the bottom of the 11th, bases loaded, no outs, who do you want pitching: the guy who loaded the bases or the best pitcher on you team?

- Carl Everett is still in the lineup. This to me is the biggest defense. He's batting .228 on the year, but since the beginning of June, he's batting .175, yet he still continues to play. Sure he'll hit a homerun now and again (he's got 11 on the year); after all, he's swinging for the fences on every pitch.Yes, he's a switch hitter, but hitting badly from both sides of the plate isn't an advantage. The fact that he's still being trotted out there every day has got to be a league-wide joke.

- The Mariners are a mediocre team in a mediocre division. Often when a manager is replaced, the team will go on a little winning spurt. That alone could be enough to give the M's the AL West. (A lousy reason, but true nonetheless.) 

Take care,

Deacon

  On 7/20/06, Tim Lohrmann < timlohr at yahoo.com> wrote:      Deacon,
  But there's a big but you neglected to mention, dude.
  What about the blown call at first?  Even the AP stories said the call was wrong. The game should have been over before the tying run was scored.  
  What counted as a sac fly to score the tying run should have been the third out. You're right that Putz wasn't as sharp as he has been, but he can't be held responsible for blown calls. 

   I'm not so sure you're right about Hargrove, either. 
   I don't think he's Mr. Wonderful or anything necessarily, but he does have the experience of having been to a world series at least. 
  And don't you think that firing him would pretty much disrupt the clubhouse for a while when the M's are still definitely in a division championship race?  
  The time to make a change like that, if there even is a better option, is when the season's over, don'tcha think?
           TL

Deacon James < deaconblues42 at gmail.com> wrote:

  Visionatics,

Last night, J.J. Putz blew a save against the Yankees that led to a Mariner loss in 11 innings.

This was the first save situation in which Putz allowed a run since taking over as the closer in early May, and it was the first save situation in which he allowed a hit since June 6. Plus, he was pitching in what turned out to become a virtual tornado. 

Somehow, this is more evidence that Mike Hargrove should be fired, but I haven't yet found a way to twist it. Any help here would be appreciated.

Take care,

Deacon

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