[Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Mon Jul 3 17:52:06 PDT 2006


"Without you, my posts would surely be mistaken for the random pecking of 
wild monkey's on an unattended keyboard. "

YOU said it, not me.

So I guess we all have to meet your "good enough" but you are unwilling to 
do so for "ours"....hmmmm..............again, another Dougie-like 
manifestation.  In the words of the master - "you learn well, grasshopper."

J  :]




>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>Ordinance
>Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:58:27 -0700
>
>Sorry, but trying to meet your standards for "good enough" isn't all that 
>high up on my priority list. My previous statements stand. Thank you very 
>much for pointing out what "I was clearly saying." Without you, my posts 
>would surely be mistaken for the random pecking of wild monkey's on an 
>unattended keyboard.
>
>gc
>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>Ordinance
>
>
>>Not good enough, sir.  You plainly state that you feel some of the council 
>>are "paid for" by those that are against Dougie and the CC - a charge you 
>>either should back up or back-up-from and apologize for (don't worry, that 
>>too is rhetorical; I realize it will NEVER happen.)
>>
>>You can cast aspersions against anyone you wish but you are clearly saying 
>>that you feel they were "bought" or that their seat(s) were bought. 
>>Personally, I didn't "hand pick" any of the people on the City Council and 
>>I do not know of anyone else who did.  Mayhap you'd be so good as to point 
>>out which ones you feel were and those that were not bought?  And who paid 
>>for them?
>>
>>Didn't think so.
>>
>>Typical kirker/Dougie supporter and learn-at-the-knee behavior - make 
>>accusations against a blank of people and then not bother to be man enough 
>>to back the statements up.
>>
>>J  :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>>Ordinance
>>>Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:51:47 -0700
>>>
>>>No darling, I was making a statement, not a charge. There is no question 
>>>that councilmen Stout and Ament enjoyed broad support from the anti CC 
>>>crowd, as well as groups that identify themselves as progressive.  I do 
>>>not believe that there is anything unethical, immoral, illegal or 
>>>particularly remarkable about this, I merely point it out as a fact. It 
>>>has been called to my attention on this forum repeatedly that I should 
>>>not be surprised that they will dance with (and for) them that brung 'em.
>>>
>>>Please remember that when you hear the popping and banging over the next 
>>>couple days that it's the independence day celebration, not Doug Wilson 
>>>taking over the town.
>>>
>>>Stay cool,
>>>G. Crabtree
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:52 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>>Ordinance
>>>
>>>
>>>>"....."progressive" buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) 
>>>>city council people"?
>>>>
>>>>Care to explain this statement?  I mean, you sound like you're making a 
>>>>charge - mayhap you can back it up or are you going to let it go as is?
>>>>
>>>>J  :]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>>>To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>>>>Ordinance
>>>>>Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:54:33 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>Mrs. Lund, why is that when the CC critics and their various 
>>>>>"progressive" buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) city 
>>>>>council people attempt to impose their will on a collective Moscow, in 
>>>>>the form of NSA/CC harassment, unionization of city employees or 
>>>>>anti-growth measures, it's democracy at work but when A decency 
>>>>>ordinance is passed, with the support of several local congregations 
>>>>>and five non CC council members, an ordinance that is similar to many 
>>>>>others across the nation, it's "ridiculous and reactionary," and a case 
>>>>>of ramming through bad law and using undo pressure as well as 
>>>>>contributory to making Moscow a laughing stock? And all because of Doug 
>>>>>Wilson? I seem to sense a serious double standard at work here. Again.
>>>>>
>>>>>I also really don't recall there being a feeling of desperation in the 
>>>>>air when Ord. 2002-13 was enacted and am certain that a lynch mob 
>>>>>mentality was not at work. To refer to goings on surrounding the 
>>>>>enactment of the topless ordinance as a sacrificial crisis is to 
>>>>>grossly overstate matters in an attempt to make a tenuous, to the point 
>>>>>of nonexistent argument. If the majority of Moscow truly feels that 
>>>>>they were "steamrolled," it should be fairly easy to have this odious 
>>>>>piece of law making repealed. Perhaps you'll have citizen/councilman 
>>>>>Ament bring this urgent matter up at the next council meeting? Maybe 
>>>>>Mr. Stout would like to champion this important cause for you? Remember 
>>>>>what happens if good people do nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>gc
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>>>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:42 AM
>>>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>>>>Ordinance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Visionaries:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I got an email today from a friend who worked with the group which 
>>>>>>tried to
>>>>>>overturn Moscow's ridiculous and reactionary topless ordinance that 
>>>>>>was
>>>>>>rammed through due to pressure from the Christ Church "PAC."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My friend sent me a link to an entry on Doug Wilson's blog and thought 
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>did an excellent job of explaining the Christ Church's role in that 
>>>>>>mess
>>>>>>that steamrolled over the beliefs of the majority of our community:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Those who stir up strife in towns, churches, cities, or nations are 
>>>>>>trying
>>>>>>to create a situation when everyone will get to a point of 
>>>>>>desperation, and
>>>>>>then try to resolve the problem with some kind of dramatic action. 
>>>>>>That
>>>>>>dramatic action is sudden, forceful, fascinating, and its effects are 
>>>>>>very
>>>>>>potent . . . and temporary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is why mobs function the way they do. This is how lynching 
>>>>>>occurs. .
>>>>>>.But it is a pseudo-salvation. It is a lie. When this kind of person
>>>>>>succeeds in stirring up a sacrificial crisis, he gets the mob, or the 
>>>>>>crowd,
>>>>>>or the presbytery, or the congregation, as the case may be, whipped up 
>>>>>>into
>>>>>>a sacrificial crisis and ready for a dramatic solution to all the 
>>>>>>trouble. "
>>>>>>http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2510
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Indeed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A law was passed that AFAIK to this day has *never* been enforced. 
>>>>>>However,
>>>>>>it did manage to make Moscow, Idaho a national laughing stock  :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have to agree with my friend . . . and I also have to wonder why 
>>>>>>Wilson
>>>>>>doesn't see himself in his own words  :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Saundra Lund
>>>>>>Moscow, ID
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>>>>>>do
>>>>>>nothing.
>>>>>>- Edmund Burke
>>>>>>
>>>>>>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra 
>>>>>>Lund.
>>>>>>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 
>>>>>>forum
>>>>>>without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
>

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