[Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

[g. crabtree]

Greetings Mrs. Lund, admittedly I am working from my imperfect memories of 
the goings on surrounding the events in question. I seem to recall at least 
two different pastors, not counting DW, piping up in support of the proposed 
ordinance. I do not recall who they were or if they specifically stipulated 
that they were speaking on behalf of their congregations or not. Whenever a 
person identifies themselves by title when they speak, I assume that they 
are doing so in their professional capacity. If I am wrong, and I have 
"slandered" or, more correctly, libeled any of Moscow's religious 
professionals, I apologize. I don't think that I did. Either way, I don't 
think that its to much of a stretch to presume that many local congregations 
are OK with this ordinance.

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
Ordinance


> Hi Mr. Crabtree,
>
> I'm rather pressed for time right now and hope to have time later to 
> respond
> to your post, but for now, can you please clarify the following statement
> for me?
>
> You wrote:
> ". . . A decency ordinance is passed, with the support of several local
> congregations . . . "
>
> What "several local congregations" are you talking about?  I can recall 
> only
> *one* local pastor (that would be Doug Wilson) who spoke for his
> congregation and one other pastor or perhaps minister who spoke for 
> himself
> and not for his congregation.
>
> However, my memory surely isn't perfect, so I'd appreciate it if you could
> provide evidence in support of your statement.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at adelphia.net]
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:55 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
> Ordinance
>
> Mrs. Lund, why is that when the CC critics and their various "progressive"
> buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) city council people
> attempt to impose their will on a collective Moscow, in the form of NSA/CC
> harassment, unionization of city employees or anti-growth measures, it's
> democracy at work but when A decency ordinance is passed, with the support
> of several local congregations and five non CC council members, an 
> ordinance
> that is similar to many others across the nation, it's "ridiculous and
> reactionary," and a case of ramming through bad law and using undo 
> pressure
> as well as contributory to making Moscow a laughing stock? And all because
> of Doug Wilson? I seem to sense a serious double standard at work here.
> Again.
>
> I also really don't recall there being a feeling of desperation in the air
> when Ord. 2002-13 was enacted and am certain that a lynch mob mentality 
> was
> not at work. To refer to goings on surrounding the enactment of the 
> topless
> ordinance as a sacrificial crisis is to grossly overstate matters in an
> attempt to make a tenuous, to the point of nonexistent argument. If the
> majority of Moscow truly feels that they were "steamrolled," it should be
> fairly easy to have this odious piece of law making repealed. Perhaps 
> you'll
> have citizen/councilman Ament bring this urgent matter up at the next
> council meeting? Maybe Mr. Stout would like to champion this important 
> cause
> for you? Remember what happens if good people do nothing.
>
> gc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:42 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance
>
>
>> Visionaries:
>>
>> I got an email today from a friend who worked with the group which tried
>> to
>> overturn Moscow's ridiculous and reactionary topless ordinance that was
>> rammed through due to pressure from the Christ Church "PAC."
>>
>> My friend sent me a link to an entry on Doug Wilson's blog and thought it
>> did an excellent job of explaining the Christ Church's role in that mess
>> that steamrolled over the beliefs of the majority of our community:
>>
>> "Those who stir up strife in towns, churches, cities, or nations are
>> trying
>> to create a situation when everyone will get to a point of desperation,
>> and
>> then try to resolve the problem with some kind of dramatic action. That
>> dramatic action is sudden, forceful, fascinating, and its effects are 
>> very
>> potent . . . and temporary.
>>
>> This is why mobs function the way they do. This is how lynching occurs. .
>> .But it is a pseudo-salvation. It is a lie. When this kind of person
>> succeeds in stirring up a sacrificial crisis, he gets the mob, or the
>> crowd,
>> or the presbytery, or the congregation, as the case may be, whipped up
>> into
>> a sacrificial crisis and ready for a dramatic solution to all the 
>> trouble.
>
>> "
>> http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2510
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> A law was passed that AFAIK to this day has *never* been enforced.
>> However,
>> it did manage to make Moscow, Idaho a national laughing stock  :-(
>>
>> I have to agree with my friend . . . and I also have to wonder why Wilson
>> doesn't see himself in his own words  :-(
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>> nothing.
>> - Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
>> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>
>>
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