[Vision2020] The pledge Controversy

[Pat Kraut]

My feeling about the pledge is this...there are a lot of people who take the
pledge and sign forms saying they will keep secrets in the CIA and FBI who
leak info. They lie even while saying the pledge. It is not a perfect answer
to loyalty, morals or truth. We must need another attack to get us to be
patriotic again and say it...but it won't really get people to be honest.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] The pledge Controversy


I had a say earlier and figured that it was sufficient to the day, but the
huge volume of traffic on this issue has me scratching my head.

There are some with honest opinions here on both sides.  Chas, for an
example, is a non-conformist and hates all things related to pledges.  His
opinion on the subject and his feelings are valid and need to be respected.
Similarly, those who want the pledge said have solid feelings on the subject
and valid desires to see the pledge said as a symbol of their own love of
country and they deserve as much respect as Chas does.

One of the people I had dinner with last night had something very valid to
say.  He noted that at his age he still tripped over the portion of the
pledge that was added in the 1950's and that he had an easier time of it
when it was not there.  He still preferred to have some sort of a patriotic
opening to a governmental proceeding.

Nancy says that she wants to vary things as opening statements before the
meeting to set the tone.  I would say that is fine, one meeting the pledge,
the next meeting the national anthem, the next a brief patriotic poem, what
ever.  What ever the pick for opening, pledge or song or poem or speech
portion, it needs to reflect civic participation in the great American
political process.

This need not have been a controversy had this idea been circulated in the
first place.  If at the first meeting it had been made clear that that was
the plan, I do not see the kind of concerns that have been aired.  The
problem occurs when actions to make changes are made without the public
being informed, in effect, the public having to discover by word of mouth
and Listserver that a change has happened without their knowledge.

So perhaps we can get Nancy to post her ideas and she can also inform the
papers with a list of the openings she intends and the controversy can die
down.  Heck, she can open a suggestion box for citizen preferred openings to
council meetings and then everybody can get a crack at picking one.

I nominate,"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world"
Socrates, in hopes of getting Chas and his kindred spirits into the idea.

Phil Nisbet

PS  On the other hand there have been one heck of a lot of not very honest
answers on this subject.  Those of you who expressed things not your own
opinion just to make political hay know who you are and that is from all
sides.  Its exceptionally bad when an official plays finger pointing as if
that offical was not involved.

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