[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Mon Jan 23 19:48:04 PST 2006
Holy Jesus!
Now you've done it.
Dale Courtney will further waste cyberspace on this one; you have been very
naughty. And I suspect after reading it carefully, Courtney's neighbor's
cat might not be safe.
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hayman" <whayman at adelphia.net>
To: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
> Hello All,
>
> Without jumping into the discussion of the Pledge and thus not airing my
> sidelong curiosity of wondering where the hue and cry was prior to 9/11
> and why no discussion focus was directed at the word "allegiance," the
> conflation of national and spousal vows earlier reminded me of a poem by
> Sharon Olds some may enoy:
>
> Topography
>
> Sharon Olds
>
> After we flew across the country we
> got in bed, laid our bodies
> delicately together, like maps laid
> face to face, East to West, my
> San Francisco to your New York, your
> Fire Island against my Sonoma, my
> New Orleans deep in your Texas, your Idaho
> bright on my Great Lakes, my Kansas
> burning against your Kansas your Kansas
> burning against my Kansas, your Eastern
> Standard Time pressing into my
> Pacific Time, my Mountain Time
> beating against your Central Time, your
> sun rising swiftly from the right my
> sun rising swiftly from the left your
> moon rising slowly from the left my
> moon rising slowly from the right until
> all four bodies of the sky
> burn above us, sealing us together,
> all our cities twin cities,
> all our states united, one
> natiion, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>
>
> Even Idaho makes it in there! Sorry for such a long opening sentence.
>
> Warren Hayman
>
> On Sunday, January 22, 2006, at 11:03 PM, Phil Nisbet wrote:
>
>> Joan
>>
>> The poetry is thus;
>>
>> Promises
>>
>> We make them we break them and vow to do better. Where broken promises
>> lead.
>>
>> By Phillip C Nixbet
>>
>> Do you take this woman?
>>
>> I took and I left for the hills
>> Seeking in distant climes
>> Driven by self ambitions
>> To prove myself to my kind
>>
>> To have and to hold?
>>
>> She was had but not held
>> She was haltered to hearth
>> Tied by a chain to my will
>> Her soul in that tethered condition
>> Bleed itself white of its hopes
>> And carried her down to perdition
>>
>> In sickness or health, for richer for poorer?
>>
>> And how would I know, was I there?
>> My pay was the solo observer
>> As good timing dandy came home
>> Where were the smiles, just look as these 'things'
>> I am giving you all that I have to give
>> So surely dear woman your heart should have wings
>>
>> Forsaking all others?
>>
>> And now I taste the sylabants
>> That proclaim the deeds much forsaken
>> The death contemplated is passions demise
>> Reds that have weathered to brownish rust
>> Killers of trust in the brown of her eyes
>>
>> Till death do you part?
>>
>> I want, was a mantra, a chant in my lingua
>> And wanting is all that it bought
>> Now I count out the lucre expended
>> And seek for the lessons it taught
>> As a sad bit of paper is crumbled to dust
>> And ashes to ashes, it's ended
>>
>> Is there any here, who know reason?
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Joan Opyr <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:51:04 -0800
>>>
>>> On 22 Jan 2006, at 20:27, Phil Nisbet wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joan
>>>>
>>>> Actually, Tom and every person in the service is required to take that
>>>> oath every time they enlist, so repeating it more than once is actually
>>>> required. And Tom did not note that as a member of any of the major
>>>> Veterans Organizations, we repeat the oath on joining and repeat it on
>>>> our annual renewing of membership as part of the charter we have as
>>>> Vets with the US Congress.
>>>
>>> I knew this; my father was in the Air Force and, later, the National
>>> Guard. I also live with a career Marine, Capt. Donald R. Huskey, USMC
>>> (Ret.) Don had a very interesting career -- he was an enlisted man who
>>> "mustanged" up. I don't know if the Corps still makes a distinction
>>> between "regular" officers and Mustangs, but back in the day, there was
>>> separate housing for the two groups. Also, the former thought the
>>> latter were declasse, and the latter thought the former were
>>> candy-assed.
>>>
>>>> I wrote a fairly good poem at one point about the lack of faith in the
>>>> real portions of marriage vows and failing to actually think about and
>>>> renew them. I have to think that had I been wiser and repeated them to
>>>> myself, I might just have managed to be a better husband and still
>>>> married. And that is not about chasing tail, but about forgetting the
>>>> real parts of those vows that were about supporting through thick and
>>>> thin and not being too tied up in oneself alone.
>>>>
>>>> Many people proclaim that they have allegiance to the United States,
>>>> but that includes people like David Duke and a host of people who have
>>>> no desire to see the Constitution or the Bill of Rights upheld. Many
>>>> people give tribute to the flag, but refuse to stand up for the
>>>> principles that the flag itself represents. The Pledge at least forces
>>>> some to look at what being an American is really about. Perhaps it
>>>> should include more of what you have in the Pledge you designed for
>>>> yourself and I for one would be glad if the council started its
>>>> meetings with just such a pledge.
>>>
>>> You and I are in complete accord on both of these points. Marriage is
>>> not about the wedding day; it's about constantly renewing the commitment
>>> to one another. And that is hard. That takes practice. I'm sorry to
>>> see the Bush Administration wasting my tax dollars pushing marriage;
>>> most people want to get married. That's not the problem. It's actually
>>> being married that's the trick. The gap between the fantasy and the
>>> real day-to-day is immense. I love Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice,
>>> but try to imagine life in the after marriage Bennett/Darcy home.
>>> Elizabeth is still Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy is still Mr. Darcy, and,
>>> suddenly, one of the world's best-loved romances morphs into Cool Hand
>>> Luke. "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
>>>
>>> This is no reflection on Melynda (though it might well be a reflection
>>> on me) but I feel an irresistible urge to quote Lord >> Byron:
>>>
>>> "It is easier to die for the woman you love than to live with her."
>>>
>>> [I hope you'll share your poem, on list or off. I enjoyed the other
>>> poems you gave me at the Grange meeting. For those who were unaware of
>>> this, Phil is a very accomplished poet. I'd like to read some of his
>>> work on the radio show sometime. How about it, Phil? Now I've publicly
>>> exposed your deep, dark secret -- your talent for composing verse!]
>>>
>>>> If there is no higher power, than men have the right to tell us what
>>>> our rights are. That means that human beings who happen to come to
>>>> power have the right to distribute rights to the people who are in the
>>>> minority. So to me I would have to say that we would have to invent
>>>> G-d if he does not exist, because only the presence of a higher power
>>>> demands that feeble men not grab and assert control over what our
>>>> liberties should be.
>>>>
>>>> The G-d mentioned then is not anybody's G-d, it is the higher power
>>>> that Jefferson refered to as "their creator", which in its very
>>>> construction tells you he meant that not to be one single religions
>>>> G-d, but all the G-d's that men worship.
>>>>
>>>> The same goes for the generic In G-d We Trust which is a statement that
>>>> we do not put our trust in men to uphold our rights. but rather place
>>>> our trust in which ever G-d we worship and keep our powder dry to
>>>> defend our rights.
>>>
>>> You're right about keeping the powder dry. Though Jefferson wrote that
>>> we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, we must
>>> rely on mere men to ensure that those rights are respected and
>>> protected. God did not see fit to intervene in Dred Scott, and I also
>>> fail to spot His fine Italian hand in the 19th Amendment or the 1964
>>> Civil Rights Voting Act. Though I believe in God (my God), I see that
>>> men who also claim to believe in God (their God) make power grabs,
>>> attempt to disenfranchise the opposition, and assume the right to tell
>>> us what our rights are on a regular basis, God (all gods) be damned.
>>> Yes, the Lord is my Shepherd, but I've got a great sheep dog and an
>>> electric fence to help me keep out the wolves. God helps those who help
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>> I have to admit that talk of a "higher power" makes me nervous. Why?
>>> Too many years attending Al-Anon meetings, at which I was assured that
>>> if my drunken relatives would just surrender their lives to a higher
>>> power -- and, for some reason, the AA people always feel obliged tell
>>> you that that higher power doesn't have to be God; it can be a Greyhound
>>> bus -- all would be well. Phooey. I lost count of the number of times
>>> that blasted Greyhound bus failed to help me hide the whiskey bottle or
>>> unload the shotgun before Drunken Bumpkin got hold of them. We
>>> surrender too much to fate and the four winds and take too little
>>> responsibility. My powder is dry, and I am always loaded for bear.
>>> Always.
>>>
>>> Just a few pleasant thoughts on this pleasant Sunday evening . . .
>>>
>>> Joan
>>>
>>> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>>> www.joanopyr.com
>>>
>>
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>
>
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