[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge

Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 22 09:30:49 PST 2006 

No, no, we should have the council members embrace this opportunity every 15 
SECONDS, you commie-pinko-socialist Wayne, and they should be grateful to do 
so.

Sunil


>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:47:17 -0800
>
>To satisfy the HUTAs like Donovan, I think we should require each council 
>member to sign and to recite a loyalty oath at the start of each meeting 
>and every 15 minutes thereafter so that we know they loyalty has not 
>changed. Anyone who opposes this idea is obviously a terrorist or a pinko 
>communist.
>
>W.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:20 PM
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>
>
>>Wasn't the pledge meant to be just that - a pledge?  We have the President 
>>"pledge" his allegience to this country when he takes office - he does not 
>>say it every day.  We have the Congress say a "pledge" when THEY take 
>>office - they do not say it every day.  When this council took office, 
>>THEY took a "pledge" - they do not say it every day.
>>
>>I have looked up the definition of pledge:
>>
>>a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear: a person who has so 
>>promised
>>
>>I also looked up oath:
>>
>>a solemn usually formal calling upon God or a god to witness to the truth 
>>of what one says or to witness that one sincerely intends to do what one 
>>says (2) : a solemn attestation of the truth or inviolability of one's 
>>words b : something (as a promise) corroborated by an oath
>>
>>In other words, a PROMISE or PLEDGE to do as one has said they would do.
>>
>>I don't believe we need to continually ask these people to make this 
>>promise; the fact that they are in office and working towards the 
>>betterment of this city says they will.  (NOTE:  Nixon took the oath and 
>>said the "pledge" - as did Bush I and II - anyone care to "vouch" for them 
>>just because they said it?)
>>
>>Someone said it earlier - just because you say the pledge does not mean 
>>you will follow it - nor does it mean that if you don't say it, you will 
>>not follow it.  How many times do you say it - daily, weekly, monthly, 
>>yearly, whenever?  Are you any less a patriot or loyal to this country if 
>>you don't?
>>
>>Don't we have better things to deal with than this?
>>
>>J  :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>>To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:59:14 -0800 (PST)
>>>
>>>I fail to see the logical connection between  searching hand bags and 
>>>saying the pledge of allegiance, Sunil.; but I  guess that is why you are 
>>>the lawyer and I am stupid college kid.
>>>
>>>   However, I will point out that saying the pledge of allegiance, fight 
>>>songs, national anthems, etc. by a group has proved to be effective in 
>>>creating a sense of community and belonging. It helps people feel like 
>>>they are all part of something important. That is why the military, 
>>>sports teams, and other groups use it.
>>>
>>>  The Pledge of  Allegiance may in truth not directly do anything. But it 
>>>is important,  just like singing the Vandal Fight Song at a football game 
>>>is  important. It does not directly cause a goal, but it gives a since of 
>>>pride and purpose of those that do. The city council does not meet just 
>>>to pass zoning codes, it does not meet to just decide policy,  ballparks, 
>>>roads, and budgets. Those are just details to a larger  purpose of the 
>>>council, which is to serve the people of this great  nation and city.
>>>
>>>  I REJECT the concept that this nation  should only show loyalty and 
>>>commitment to friends and neighbors ONLY  in a time of war or tragedy. Or 
>>>as others say, through their votes. We  should show it always. The United 
>>>States Flag and the Pledge have deep  meaning to me, and millions of 
>>>Americans. To eliminate its recognition  for which we enjoy its 
>>>protection and all that came with that  protection, those that died for 
>>>it, is wrong in my heart and mind. You  may not agree with that thought, 
>>>and that is fine. But I, personally  view the stopping of the pledge 
>>>before a US government meeting of  elected US officials as insulting and 
>>>I am going to say so.
>>>
>>>   If you want to call that belief silly, that is fine. You can call 
>>>those that say it silly. If members of the council do not want to invest 
>>>a whopping two minutes a month I guess that is there right to do so. 
>>>However, I strongly disagree and take offense to the action.
>>>
>>>   If the pledge and the flag is do unimportant, why do people get so 
>>>upset when the Confederate flag is honored. Because we all know, that the 
>>>MEANING behind a  flag screams our values, our beliefs, and  our future 
>>>commitments.
>>>
>>>   _DJA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  And by your logic, 
>>>Donovan, those with nothing to hide should not mind
>>>opening their bags, vehicles, and homes to searches by the police.  They
>>>should welcome warrantless searches of these, as well as monitoring of 
>>>their
>>>email and phone conversations by the NSA.  If they're loyal, why object 
>>>to
>>>such intrusions?
>>>
>>>It is silly to think that somehow good governance follows because the 
>>>pledge
>>>is recited.  Did the City Council's performance improve after they 
>>>started
>>>saying the Pledge at meetings four years ago?  Wasn't the ludicrous 
>>>Topless
>>>Ordinance enacted within the last four years?  The decision to pour money
>>>into the gym?  That was certainly in the last four years.  When former 
>>>Mayor
>>>Comstock told residents in the neighborhood near the proposed ballfields 
>>>to
>>>wear earplugs, was that inspired by the Pledge?  Was that responsive
>>>governance?
>>>
>>>I honestly don't know how often the Pledge is recited by the President or
>>>Congress, but I don't see them serving our interests with either the war 
>>>in
>>>Iraq or by running up staggering deficits.  I'd prefer they spend less 
>>>time
>>>on the pledge, and more time avoiding bone-headed policies.
>>>
>>>I won't be judging this council on the basis of whether they start their
>>>meetings with the Pledge of Alliegance.  I'll judge them on the basis of
>>>their responsiveness to the public and by the quality of their decisions. 
>>>I
>>>am more interested in what they do after the meeting starts than whether
>>>they can chant in unison at the beginning.
>>>
>>>Sunil
>>>
>>> >From: Donovan Arnold
>>> >To: John Dickinson , "'Phil Nisbet'"
>>> >
>>>,        nchaney at moscow.com
>>> >CC: aaronament at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, johnd at moscow.com,
>>> >blambert at ci.moscow.id.us, jweber at ci.moscow.id.us,        "'Linda Pall'"
>>> >, bstout at ci.moscow.id.us
>>> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>>> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:37:17 -0800 (PST)
>>> >
>>> >John and Nancy,
>>> >
>>> >   I want to thank you for having the courage to write Vision2020 and
>>> >publicly address the issue of the Pledge of Allegiance.
>>> >
>>> >   However, I want to say that it saddens my heart and upsets my 
>>>stomach
>>> >that you have removed the pledge of allegiance to our flag from your
>>> >bi-monthly meetings. I strongly believe that this is a step in the 
>>> >wrong
>>> >direction, particularly at this time.
>>> >
>>> >  Granted, the  pledge is abused, misused, uttered with content,
>>> >repetition, and  without meaning to many, and its purpose is lost on 
>>> >many
>>> >more. But  regardless, the pledge was meant to illustrate to the public
>>> >your  loyalty to the people. It is a reminder to the corruptible, to
>>> >politicians that forget why they are there after many years of service,
>>> >and to those about to cast a vote to spite a political enemy or help a
>>> >personal friend, that their vote and loyalty belongs to and for all the
>>> >PEOPLE of Moscow, the people of Idaho, and the people of the United
>>> >States.
>>> >
>>> >  With all of the corruption, back room deals, and  dishonest > 
>>>politicians
>>> >in our mists, I believe it is important that  every elected official 
>>> >make
>>>a
>>> >public statement before casting a vote  that they acknowledge publicly
>>>WHY
>>> >and for WHO they are casting their  vote.
>>> >
>>> >  I am sorry to hear, Councilman Dickinson, that saying  the pledge > 
>>>twice
>>>a
>>> >month is too much for you. I for one feel that we  should be honored to
>>>say
>>> >it at least as much.
>>> >
>>> >  The irony  here is that we force our children every school day to 
>>>take
>>>a
>>> >loyalty  to the nation when they know not the meaning of the word, and
>>>the
>>> >politicos that need to remind themselves and the people why they are
>>> >elected to office, excuse themselves from such commitments.
>>> >
>>> >   Mayor Cheney, Councilman Dickinson, and the other member of the
>>> >council, if you feel your oath to this city is unquestionable, if you
>>>have
>>> >  unquestionable loyalty to  this nation, if you do not  question your
>>> >pride in this nation,  then their should be no  question to your
>>> >willingness to say the pledge twice a month that  children say five 
>>> >times
>>>a
>>> >week.
>>> >
>>> >   Sincerely,
>>> >
>>> >   Donovan J Arnold
>>> >Proud United States Citizen and Moscow Resident
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
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