[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge

Fri Jan 20 21:51:23 PST 2006

John

Thanks for responding.  The question I had deals with above board 
government.  I have no objections to the council deciding as a body to say 
anything they wish as an opening to governmental business, as long as the 
council makes its reasons for its action known.  If that was your reason, 
its a reason and as long as the council voted to accept your objections in 
open form, then I have no objection.

What I do not want to see is government hiding its actions with any sort of 
slight of hand.  Things governmental should always ocur in the light of day 
so that the voters can make logical calls about what they wish from their 
elected officials.

Phil Nisbet

>From: "John Dickinson" <johnd at moscow.com>
>To: "'Phil Nisbet'" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>,<nchaney at moscow.com>
>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>,"'Linda Pall'" 
><lpall at moscow.com>,<aaronament at moscow.com>,<johnd at moscow.com>,<blambert at ci.moscow.id.us>,<bstout at ci.moscow.id.us>,<jweber at ci.moscow.id.us>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:55:50 -0800
>
>Visionaries-
>
>I am one of the council members that asked that we not say the pledge of
>allegiance to the flag at each council meeting. Before 9/11, the pledge was
>said at council meetings that were near special national celebrations, such
>as the Fourth of July. Since 9/11, the pledge has been said at each council
>meeting. My primary objection to making the pledge pro forma is that it
>dilutes its meaning by saying it all the time. It seems similar the singing
>the national anthem before baseball games - begun after WWI, I think it
>would be more meaningful to sing our national anthem on days of celebration
>or on days of national trauma.
>
>If there are some that worry about a council members commitment to city,
>county, state and nation - then I think we'd need to have a more inclusive
>ritual to begin each meeting, something that included the city, county,
>state parts.
>
>Every moment since I was elected two years ago I have felt the weight of
>responsibility that I have been granted by the people of this community. It
>is a joyous burden to feel. I thank you all for helping to make Moscow a
>place I could never leave.
>
>John Dickinson
>Moscow City Council
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > On Behalf Of Phil Nisbet
> > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:28 PM
> > To: nchaney at moscow.com
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
> >
> > Nancy
> >
> > Just for the sake of the public's right to know, which council members
> > exactly felt that the Pledge should not be offered?  Not to question 
>their
> > feelings or their sincerity, I just think that the public has a right to
> > know who exactly among the council feels that the pledge does not 
>belong.
> > Then I would ask, did the council vote on removal of the pledge and how
>was
> > the agenda changed to reflect the change from former procedure?
> >
> > I guess what I am wondering here is if this is an issue for some
>particular
> > reason.  Does one or more of the council members feel that they can not
> > partake in the Pledge of Allegiance due to some specific detail 
>contained
>in
> > the pledge?  Has the whole council decided to alter its conduct to
> > accommodate this concern of the few who have a problem?
> >
> > I mean for all I know the reason somebody does not want to take the 
>pledge
> > is because they disagree with the statement "liberty and justice for 
>all".
> > Knowing that the council is not loaded down with people who oppose our
> > Republican form of government would be nice.  So what’s the beef that 
>the
> > few have with the Pledge?
> >
> > Phil Nisbet
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Nancy Chaney" <nchaney at moscow.com>
> > >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>,        "'Area 
>Man
> > >(Dan C)'" <areaman at moscow.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
> > >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:12:49 -0800
> > >
> > >Donovan, just so you’ll know, Dan’s V2020 opener about “…humanness” was
> > >the end of my reading of a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., in
> > >acknowledgement of his birthday and in support of human rights. In its
> > >entirety, it says: “We must work unceasingly to uplift this nation that
> > >we love to a higher plateau of compassion, to a more noble expression 
>of
> > >humanness.” In my book, that also speaks to loyalty to country.
> > >
> > >I acknowledge that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is a big deal to
> > >many people. I would argue that contemplating the true meanings of 
>those
> > >words is a bigger deal. Whatever their personal reasons, I believe that
> > >City Council members who asked that we not include the Pledge, are
> > >honorable and sincerely driven to serve this community.
> > >
> > >I get shivers when the flag goes by, but I appreciate that loving the
> > >foundations and people of ones Country is distinct from being made to
> > >say particular words before each Council meeting. Please be aware that
> > >upon being sworn in, local elected officials sign an oath to “support
> > >the Constitution of the United States and the State of Idaho, and the
> > >Laws and Ordinances of the City of Moscow, and …to the best of 
>(his/her)
> > >ability, faithfully perform the duties of the office…” I am confident
> > >that we all took that oath very seriously and considered the meaning of
> > >every word and our ability to abide by them in good conscience. Thank
> > >you for being concerned.
> > >
> > >Nancy Chaney
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
> > >Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:10 PM
> > >To: Area Man (Dan C); vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
> > >
> > >Dan,
> > >
> > >Thanks for bringing this up. I think any person who cannot show a
> > >loyalty to the United States over other nations has no business being 
>in
> > >an elected office in the United States.
> > >
> > >I think the people in any city, county, state, or country deserve, at
> > >minimum, the knowledge that their elected leaders are on their team. If
> > >an elected leader cannot say, "Yes, I affirm my allegiance to this
> > >country, state, county, and city FIRST.", I think that disqualifies 
>them
> > >from the position. Saying, "I am for Humans" just does not cut it for
> > >me.
> > >
> > >-DJA
> > >
> > >
> > >"Area Man (Dan C)" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >Members of the Vizzz,
> > >
> > >I was perusing the agenda for the last city council meeting and noticed
> > >the Pledge of Allegiance was no longer an agenda item. I could not
> > >attend the meet! ing since my delicate flower was working basketball
> > >games
> > >(Go Bears!) and someone had to stay home and make sure the kids 
>couldn't
> > >escape from their restraints (yes, I'm being facetious).
> > >
> > >I listened to the city's recording of the council meeting, but the
> > >recording starts with Mayor Chaney saying: " . . . expression of
> > >humanness. With that we'll call the meeting to order." Then they move
> > >into the consent agenda and public comment period.
> > >
> > >Does the council no longer begin meetings with the Pledge, or was it
> > >just not recorded? If the council no longer begins with the Pledge, why
> > >not?
> > >
> > >curiosity's killin' me, and I ain't no cat,
> > >
> > >DC
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________
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> > >mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Photos
> > >Ring in the New Year with Photo
> > 
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> > 
> >p:/us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/evt=38087/*http:/pg.photos.ya
> > >hoo.com/ph/page?.file=calendar_splash.html&.dir=>  Calendars. Add
> > >photos, events, holidays, whatever.
> >
> >
> > >_____________________________________________________
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> > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> > >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
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> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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