[Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
joekc at adelphia.net
joekc at adelphia.net
Fri Jan 20 13:45:12 PST 2006
Thanks for the reply, Gary! I'd enjoy a beer and the opportunity to talk about this in more detail. I have a full-time job, too! (Though I can type pretty well, it being relevant to my full-time job.)
Just a few comments and then I'll leave it alone, until we have a chance for that beer.
We have a Wal-Mart and a Win Co where you can buy all of the inexpensive stuff you need. Preventing a Super Wal-Mart from coming to town is not going to limit your options too much, as far as I see it.
You seem to put a lot of faith into the slogan "compete, adapt, or die" but I do not. The principle behind it is that the best businesses win in a fair competition. To me, it is not always the best businesses that survive this test of competition precisely because not all business operate on the same playing field. If we lived in a laboratory where we could construct a free and fair market place, then the principle might have some value and application.
Tri-State, for instance, became a much better store after it was forced to compete with Wal-Mart. But a Super Wal-Mart will crush it and all other competitors -- and NOT because a Super Wal-Mart is better but because it is hard to compete against low-cost and convenience. People will buy stuff at Super Wal-Mart because it offers one-stop shopping, not because the cheap stuff there is somehow better than the stuff elsewhere.
And in the end our choice will be between the Super Wal-Mart in Moscow and the one in Pullman -- until Wal-Mart closes one of them and forces us all to drive to the other!
Best, Joe
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Joe, You have covered a lot of ground with your post. I'll have to take it
> in small bites. The "minding of other peoples business" which, for the sake
> of brevity I will refer to as nannyism from now on, is apparent in your
> first sentence.You do not know that a supper wal mart will drive away
> business, but this is a concern for the business, not you. Compete, adapt,
> or die. Protecting the precious little shops that you want to shop at on my
> dime and at the expense of another business is nannyism plain and simple.
>
> With regard to long term planning and the infliction of will, this really
> boils down to a difference in world view. While I realize that there must be
> some plan to keep hazardous chemical plants and hog farms out of residential
> areas and so forth, I don't think that every change in land use and every
> potential business should be up for scrutiny by the rest of the herd. Giving
> every breathing soul a say in everyone else's plans is democracy at its
> worst. Having some grand twenty year comprehensive plan to chart how a
> community will be (come hell of high water) is laughable. Over the long haul
> Moscow should grow more organically rather than trying to force future
> property owners and business people into a mold developed in the past. The
> lightest possible hand should be used with regard to inflicting your will on
> someone else.
>
> As to your question about my stance on women in the military, I would have
> thought it was clear that I was stating my personal opinion not inflicting
> my will. There are reasoned rationales for my opinion that I wont bore you
> with here but suffice it to say that I think that there is a world of
> difference between having an opinion and minding someone else's business.
> Just because I don't care for the color my neighbor chose to paint his
> house, I don't run to the nearest authority and demand a change. No business
> minding here.
>
> I would like to go into more depth with my reasons for the attitudes I give
> voice to on this forum but I cant type and I have a life and a full time job
> so needless to say this is a little time consuming for me. Perhaps we can
> rail away at each other over a beer sometime where the hunt & peck problem
> wont get in the way.
>
> Take care,
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> Cc: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
>
>
> Dear Mr. Crabree,
>
> How is it that those who want no Super Wal-Mart are restricting choices –
> “seem intent on minding other folks business,” as you say – when we already
> HAVE a Wal-Mart yet a Super Wal-Mart will actually drive away businesses to
> which many of us CHOOSE to go?
>
> I really wish you would stop characterizing all of those who are against NSA
> being downtown and a Super Wal-Mart coming into town as being against choice
> and trying to inflict their will on others.
>
> I am for long-term planning, not short term decision making based on cost
> and convenience. I am for deciding whether or not a school should be in the
> downtown area before it gets there, and for thinking clearly about whether a
> Super Wal-Mart will ruin the town I love before it happens. Maybe I’m wrong
> that Moscow is worse with a college downtown or that I will be worse off
> with a Super Wal-Mart 1/2 mile from my house. I can live with knowing this.
> I just want to be part of the process before it takes place and to have some
> say in how Moscow develops. But I want you to be part of that process too,
> Mr. Crabtree. I’m not against the democratic process. I am simply for
> recognizing and sticking to a comprehensive plan for the development of the
> city. I am for locating debate on the comprehensive plan in public settings
> that occur before any change is implemented, as opposed to deciding what to
> do after the fact. I am against backroom dealings that benefit a few at the
> expense of others.
>
> One more question: How can you say in one breath that “women shouldn't be
> soldiers” yet in another say you “tire of people who seem intent on minding
> other folks business” – and not notice the conflict between these two
> claims?
>
> Best, Joe
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
> > Greetings, Metzler. I think that you are still playing tether ball. It
> > would seem from the previous posts that you have sent me that I spend a
> > lot of time making you scratch your noggin and wonder about my motives. I
> > am really not sure what to say to clear things up for you. I have no
> > hidden agenda and aside from some sarcasm, mean exactly what I say. I am a
> > non kirker who thinks that women shouldn't be soldiers. I don't give a
> > damn about homosexuality as long as they don't demand special privilege
> > for it. I haven't got a clue about Jesus' plan or what God's judging
> > criteria will be. I do know that I tire of people who seem intent on
> > minding other folks business, whether it be trailer courts, schools
> > downtown, or Wal-Mart. As to the social categories comment, I have to
> > admit that I am confused and don't know what you mean. Perhaps a plainly
> > put question would help, assuming that I didn't blunder into the answer
> > with this message.
> >
> > All the best,
> > gc
> > From: Michael
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:29 PM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
> >
> >
> > gc,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi crabtree. Just a quick note: I'm not sure I'm getting you. I'm a
> > kirker who thinks women shouldn't be soldiers, that homosexuality is
> > contrary to the creational (and new creation) design plan of God, and that
> > any liberal agnostic who doesn't have Jesus is going to be judged by God.
> > I think you might be confusing social categories a little bit. Or am I
> > entirely off base here?
> >
> >
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Michael Metzler
> >
> >
> >
> > That would be great! How about it Ms. W? We could all draw ourselves up
> > into a big cyber-circle and you could regale us with a tale of how Christ
> > Church and the big bad Doug "dun u rong." Its been simply days and days
> > since we heard some variation on that story. I would hate to forget why it
> > is that their license to breathe our good "progressive" air should be
> > revoked.
> >
> >
> >
> > gc
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Michael
> >
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:24 PM
> >
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
> >
> >
> >
> > Gabe,
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow; I wonder what could have happened then. After all of your love,
> > what would have driven her away? Have you asked her that? If her reasons
> > don't seem sufficient to you, are they meaningless?
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Metzler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
> > Greetings, Metzler. I think that you are still playing tether ball. It
> > would seem from the previous posts that you have sent me that I spend a
> > lot of time making you scratch your noggin and wonder about my motives. I
> > am really not sure what to say to clear things up for you. I have no
> > hidden agenda and aside from some sarcasm, mean exactly what I say. I am a
> > non kirker who thinks that women shouldn't be soldiers. I don't give a
> > damn about homosexuality as long as they don't demand special privilege
> > for it. I haven't got a clue about Jesus' plan or what God's judging
> > criteria will be. I do know that I tire of people who seem intent on
> > minding other folks business, whether it be trailer courts, schools
> > downtown, or Wal-Mart. As to the social categories comment, I have to
> > admit that I am confused and don't know what you mean. Perhaps a plainly
> > put question would help, assuming that I didn't blunder into the answer
> > with this message.
> >
> > All the best,
> > gc
> > From: Michael
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:29 PM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
> >
> >
> > gc,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi crabtree. Just a quick note: I'm not sure I'm getting you. I'm a
> > kirker who thinks women shouldn't be soldiers, that homosexuality is
> > contrary to the creational (and new creation) design plan of God, and that
> > any liberal agnostic who doesn't have Jesus is going to be judged by God.
> > I think you might be confusing social categories a little bit. Or am I
> > entirely off base here?
> >
> >
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Michael Metzler
> >
> >
> >
> > That would be great! How about it Ms. W? We could all draw ourselves up
> > into a big cyber-circle and you could regale us with a tale of how Christ
> > Church and the big bad Doug "dun u rong." Its been simply days and days
> > since we heard some variation on that story. I would hate to forget why it
> > is that their license to breathe our good "progressive" air should be
> > revoked.
> >
> >
> >
> > gc
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Michael
> >
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:24 PM
> >
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
> >
> >
> >
> > Gabe,
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow; I wonder what could have happened then. After all of your love,
> > what would have driven her away? Have you asked her that? If her reasons
> > don't seem sufficient to you, are they meaningless?
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Metzler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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