[Vision2020] Nils, on water and mines Part One
Phil Nisbet
pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
Fri Jan 13 09:35:37 PST 2006
Now there is something that you do not see every day, Phil and Wayne
agreeing.
Wayne, that is why we put those sorts of provisions in the new County Code,
but luckily we also have backup in that IDL has a responsibilty for bonding
and reclaiming as well. The last thing that legitimate operators want is to
see bad actors do negative things, because it poisons ;the ability to work
and damages hard won community support.
As Mark can tell you, I have opposed mines in the past that had the
potential to result in rape and run or that were not sustainable
developments. The best example I can give you of one of those was one we
killed at County level in Lemhi County northwest of North Fork, that was
aptly named the Humbug Project (And I am not making that up, the people who
proposed the project called it that). Not only was that one right in the
middle of Ditch Creek, it had plans to put a cyanide heap leach on the top
of a ridge on unstable ground in high snow fall terrain. The grade of the
operation meant that it was going to be marginal and would have no money
generated to put toward insuring the safety of closure post operations. You
know that Lemhi County is not exactly the greenest place on earth, but we
organized everybody and supported ICL in seeing that permits for the Humbug
project were never issued.
Phil Nisbet
>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nils, on water and mines Part One
>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:56:36 -0800
>
>Phil, et al,
>
>Perhaps we are in agreement about some aspects of clay mining.
>
>If getting locally produced clay would help potters and others, that would
>be a plus, not to mention the jobs that the clay mining and processing
>could create and sustain.
>
>The question of mining or any other activity with possible high adverse
>impacts is the location and control of that activity.
>
>The questions are the same as with other zoning proposals: Where, how,
>when, who, etc.
>
>Just as it would be foolish to maintain that all mining activities are
>devastating and undesirable, it would be equally foolish to maintain that
>all are. The facts of each proposal need to be made very public,
>discussed, reworked, etc to determine if a viable plan with minimal impacts
>to other people and other resources can be designed.
>
>The "who" is also important for two reasons:
>
>[1] News readers and various activists know that those running certain
>mining operations often ignore the laws and permit conditions applicable to
>their operations. Some mining proposers have been patently dishonest about
>their probable impacts. Hence, in evaluating proposals it is important to
>look at the record and past performances of those making the proposals.
>Perhaps the requirement of bonding is one of several options to attempt to
>minimize abuses -- the amount and conditions of the bond being related to
>past performances of the proposer.
>
>[2] The Latah County Planning and Zoning function is notorious now and in
>the past for ignoring zoning and permit violations. The present comp plan
>and zoning regulations need to be modified to allow the relevant conditions
>placed on mining permits and to emphasize the importance of enforcement.
>
>So, are we in agreement with the following statement?
>
>Mining should not be prohibited in Latah County, but it should be allowed
>with enforced and carefully designed conditions to reasonably protect those
>impacted by such activity.
>
>
>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>deco at moscow.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 7:36 AM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Nils, on water and mines Part One
>
>
> > Nils
> >
> > That is exactly the fact finding and dialogue that we do need to have,
>but
> > in that debate, the stereotypes need to be left at the door.
> >
> > Say the word mine and instantly the devil has been invoked in Moscow.
> > Frankly, it’s hard to actually discuss a topic or plan for a future when
> > people are piling branches for an Auto de Fe, shouting, he's a miner,
>burn
> > him. I swear to goodness I weigh more than a duck.
> >
> > The resources that Mike or I are talking about are not those over the
>top of
> > the Moscow Sub-Basin or any portions of the Palouse Aquifer. They are
>in
> > places within Latah County that have no hydrological impact on the water
> > debate here. And if anybody is interesting in verifying that, they can
> > check with John Bush or Mark Soloman. The Groundwater and surface
>waters of
> > Helmer and Bovill and Deary are in a separate system and a system that
> > receives more water than the Moscow Sub-basin does and is currently
>sparsely
> > used.
> >
> > That is of course no excuse for any potential that any industry should
>waste
> > water. But it is an indication that the water budget in Bovill is not
>in
> > the same situation of extreme draw down that occurs in Moscow. I concur
> > that a debate on how much water and how it can be conserved in Eastern
>Latah
> > County needs to occur. Making sure that the same over use that happened
>in
> > the Palouse Supra-Basin does not happen below the Helmer embayment is
>very
> > worthy of discussion.
> >
> > The minerals in the Helmer Bovill area are inert. Contact between the
> > feldspar, quartz and clays of that area and the water of the area does
>not
> > result in contamination of the water or make it unfit for human or
>wildlife
> > consumption. If water flowing over what is in essence granite were a
> > problem in that regards, all of our water in Latah County would be a
>witches
> > brew and unsafe to drink, since most of the area’s water is in contact
>with
> > either the granite or sediments derived from it.
> >
> > Mining in the Helmer Bovill area has been conducted for the past 100
>years.
> > Some of that mineral work has been with materials that did not require
>water
> > processing and some was carried out using water.
> >
> > Most of the list has been out at the Moose Creek Reservoir. That Lake
>was
> > built for the use of JR Simplot's clay mine immediately to the south of
>it.
> > It should give you an idea of the amounts of water needed to carry out a
> > fairly extensive clay mine. Feldspar and quartz mine operations require
> > much less water. And the Simplot operation, which operated from
>1958-1993,
> > was constructed without any sort of modern water conservation. Current
>clay
> > or other mineral mines recycle their water, which reduces requirements
>for
> > water to about 10% of the needs that Simplot had.
> >
> > So, on the water front, the question is one of planning requirements
>that
> > insist that operations use water wisely and that assets like the Moose
>Creek
> > Reservoir are the result of any operational plan.
> >
> > (Continued in Part two)
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: Nils Peterson <nils_peterson at wsu.edu>
> >>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: [Vision2020] Re: A Great Meeting
> >>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:16:15 -0800
> >>
> >>Phil, you made a related post on Nov 18, to which I replied. Both are
> >>captured here: http://moscowwiki.editme.com/Hwy95Hwy8Intersection in
>the
> >>form of a proposal for where Moscow might house some of those ceramic
> >>artists.
> >>
> >>My follow on comment this time would be that we need to be judicious in
>how
> >>excited we get about clay mining, both from water resource impacts and
>from
> >>extractive industry perspective. A model like Wendt's that extracts clay
> >>for
> >>its own value added production seems more appropriate, but even there
>one
> >>might find there were limits on what would seem appropriate.
> >>
> >>
> >>On 1/13/06 4:44 AM, "vision2020-request at moscow.com"
> >><vision2020-request at moscow.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > One of the points that Mike Wendt made at the meeting is something
>that
> >> > ought to be discussed. He noted that his on site sales of pottery
>from
> >>his
> >> > out of the way shop in Lewiston, not exactly the best place for
>tourist
> >> > trade, had a cash register that in a little less than 20 years of
> >>operations
> >> > had rung up over 3 million dollars in sales. That is not from mass
> >>produced
> >> > ceramics, but from true hand crafted pottery.
> >> >
> >> > Mike's materials come from right here in Latah County. We have the
>raw
> >> > stuff from which to form a high value added art related industry in
> >>Moscow's
> >> > backyard. And its not common clay or low value feldspar and quartz,
>its
> >> > some of the best porcelain producing material in the world.
> >>
> >>_____________________________________________________
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> > _____________________________________________________
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> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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