[Vision2020] comb-overs
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Thu Jan 5 07:44:49 PST 2006
Mr. Fox, I admire the fact that you have the integrity to admit that pretty much all religion chaps your ass rather then coming on like Sunday school Suzie, wagging your finger and bleating "for shame." I still do not see my precious rights being ravaged by these folks. In fact I fear the current city council far more. They, in fact, have the power to interfere with my life in myriad unpleasant ways. Lest you think I did not read your post with the care and attention that it merited, I admit that I don't quite know what to make of Mr. Dickison's credenda article. Until I have an opportunity to speak with someone closer to the source, I can have no comment. As to the links that you provide, I don't find either particularly compelling. A retired philosophy perfessor with an agenda nor a completely self serving, money grubbing supposed "watch dog" group are not the fonts from which unbiased information flow. Mr. Wilson and his flock have a vision for how they would like Moscow to look on down the road, I don't see how this as a problem. Many groups do and frankly theirs is not anywhere near the worst of them. And lastly, your magnificent hyperbole with regard to zoning and criminal behavior. This has been gone over on this forum ad nauseaum and your taking one more stab at it with all guns blazing doesn't compel me to hide under my bed or take to the streets, pitch fork in hand. Eternal vigilance is terrific, I'm glad you have a hobby, but I still don't see anything that is going to keep me from sleeping soundly tonight.
Respectfully,
g. crabtree
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco
To: Vision 2020
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Mr. Crabtree,
Time does not permit a complete answer to your question about why I think the CCC is a threat to civil liberties. However, so that you may discover some of my reasons by a little web hopping, I include previously posted material and a few comments.
__________________________________
From Credenda/Agenda by Gregory Dickison [Comments added]:
http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
"The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one's parents..."
"In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some Christians believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the "harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is the result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is called pity."
"If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..." [Heresy: Beware, ye not of the cult (including unconverted Jews)!]
"If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her..."
God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the criminal. If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence.
"Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has decided the matter. The [civil] magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's... This means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the bounds which God has established for us."
__________________________________
End of direct quote [Emphasis added.]
Let's see:
Murder (by even a child), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, cursing one's parents, heresy, etc. are to be punished by death (by stoning) according to Dickison and by the extension of the Cult Master's statements, all of the Christ Church Cult.
Should be take the above statement by CCC attorney Greg Dickison seriously?
[1] Credenda/Agenda is the official organ of the CCC.
[2] Cultmaster Douglas Wilson has on record in the LMT refused to repudiate the above statements by Dickison.
[3] Cult Master Wilson has specifically and clearly stated that [his version of] his alleged God's Laws take precedence over the United States Constitution.
[4] Part of the credo of the CCC:
...the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as originally given, to be the inerrant Word of God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice...
[5] It is an open, public declared vow of the Cultmaster to "evangelize the Palouse" and to refashion Moscow, specifically the downtown in his image of Oxford, England.
Here are two links for your perusal:
http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/1801/C136/L136
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=645
As to the CCC's attitude toward local secular law here is another excerpt from a another posting:
Lastly but perhaps most importantly, there is a very important public policy issue at stake: Are those who knowingly, intentionally, criminally, and arrogantly violate zoning laws entitled to have the law changed so that they are no longer criminals?
I hope any honest, open-minded, conscientious public official would answer this question with a resounding "No!"
New Saint Andrews was the target of at least two prior zoning complaints before locating at its present illegal site. The city found in both the prior cases that New Saint Andrews acted in contravention of the law. Hence, New Saint Andrews cannot credibly argue that moving into their current location was an innocent mistake. It was a knowing, intentional, in-your-face, criminal move. The above evidence shows that any claim to the contrary is an outright lie. Further, the city zoning code explicitly puts the burden on the citizen/developer/entrepreneur to understand and to comply with the code.
It would be the poorest public policy to reward this show of criminal arrogance by New Saint Andrews now giving it an official blessing. Such a public policy would only encourage other criminally inclined to do the same. In fact, it appears that at least two other schools are taking a page out of New Saint Andrews book of sleazy tactics by locating downtown in contravention of the zoning code.
With a little thought after reading the above and understanding that the CCC's intention is to impose their version of some alleged god's alleged will on the local citizens, I suspect that you might begin to suspect such activity as a potential threat to civil liberties. [Pay special attention to Dickison's remarks about death for heresy [disagreement with the Cultmaster's theological dicta].
Jefferson said: Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
I, for one, am not going to wait to speak up until the CCC becomes a larger threat. I doubt that several others will wait either. Perhaps in regard to civil liberties, you will not choose wait much longer either.
As to other religious denominations, sects, and cults being a threat to civil liberties: Many are. Most of these I can do little about. Not so with the CCC.
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree
To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Mr. Fox, Please school me as to how the CCC is " a grave threat to civil liberties." It would seem to me that their teachings are little different from other conservative denominations that come to mind and I don't think that they really have the clout of the LDS or the Roman Catholics. I would desperately like to know how this totalitarian nightmare that scares you so is going to be brought about.
g. crabtree
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco
To: Vision 2020
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Keely, Ellen,
With all due respect, we a small disagreement.
First of all, I agree that it is unkind/unacceptable to make derogatory comments about appearance aspects in many cases: race, ethnic origin/appearance, gender preference/style, height, unregulatable weight, etc.
However, there are certain appearance items that are suggestive but not confirmatory of certain other traits. Without wanting to start a major slugfest (but it probably will), I'll give an example.
When I worked as a consultant, some of my advice was sought and taken on potential management, technical, and executive hires. During the screening process it sometime happened that an applicant exhibited a red nose and cheeks -- broken and/or barely subdermal capillaries. There can be many causes of this. However, when you are hiring a high salaried person from whom diligence and production is needed and expected, there are two conditions that can cause this condition for which more information is needed in the evaluation of the candidate: excessively elevated or prolonged high blood pressure or a alcohol abuse problem.
In either case a need arises from the initial observation for more information to assist in determining the risk/reward of hiring the applicant. It would be foolish to hire a person with a long standing drinking problem unless there was evidence that this condition did not affect his past work performance and would not affect his future work performance. Similarly, a person with a history of high blood pressure is probably not going to be a good candidate for a high stress level position -- either from their or the company's perspective.
Appearance does matter as a suggestion of other traits. It is not determinative alone, but it raises questions that in certain situations need to be answered by further query.
Using your imagination and experience, I am sure you can think of other physical appearances including dress, hair style, hygiene, etc that are similarly suggestive.
In my experience, men with extreme comb-overs are often, but not always, vainglorious, and with other traits that accompany vaingloriousness including dishonesty about things of importance to them.
In the case of Dale Courtney we have lots of other information upon which to base an assessment of the traits suggested by his hair style: The tendencies in his web-blots, for example, to play fast and loose with the truth whenever something seems to reflect badly upon something that he is identified with.
Rose Huskey pointed this out at the beginning of this thread about his attempt to whitewash the unchristian discrimination against those with learning disabilities at Logos School. He often incompletely (with malice) and sometimes out of context (with malice) quotes/mischaracterizes those whom he attacks in his web-blots. His pseudo-libertarianism is obvious -- pretending to believe in personal liberty while being the lay mouthpiece for the CCC, an organization that is a grave threat to civil liberties to people on the Palouse.
Hence, Courtney's extreme comb-over is both a symptom and a part of his vaingloriousness -- a trait he shares with his Cultmaster -- and all that goes with it. Hence, as far as I am concerned, his comb-over and that of which it is a symptom is fair game. [There are other games afoot that also make it fair game. Some V 2020ers are aware of some of these.]
I doubt that we will come to any agreement about the appropriateness of bashing Courtney's falsies. Such is the nature of things at this time . However, I will refrain from lampooning Courtney further with the famous lines from a W. C. Fields movie uttered in all innocence by a young boy: "Look, Ma. At the size that man's nose. If it was full of nickels, he'd be rich."
Cheers,
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Roskovich
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com ; dmcourtn at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Thank you, Keely! Every now and again the kids playing in this sandbox need to reminded of their manners.
Ellen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: dmcourtn at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:14:44 -0800
>
>
>One other thing -- I don't think it's all right to make fun of
>people's appearance. I don't know and don't care if someone combs
>their hair a certain way, and I say this as someone whose hair is
>still in its plain, unstylish Seventies mode. Dale and I clearly
>aren't pals, but appearance is irrelevant.
>
>keely
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>http://www.fsr.net
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Thank you, Keely! Every now and again the kids playing in this sandbox need to reminded of their manners.
Ellen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: dmcourtn at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] comb-overs
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:14:44 -0800
>
>
>One other thing -- I don't think it's all right to make fun of
>people's appearance. I don't know and don't care if someone combs
>their hair a certain way, and I say this as someone whose hair is
>still in its plain, unstylish Seventies mode. Dale and I clearly
>aren't pals, but appearance is irrelevant.
>
>keely
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>http://www.fsr.net
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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