[Vision2020] LMT Feb 19 -- Cyber soapbox stirs deb?ate

[g. crabtree]

Ma'am, Am I missing something?

>>All that comes against assessments offered by the likes of Doug Wilson,
>>pastor of Moscow's Christ Church and a perpetual target (some say by his
>>own making) on Vision 2020. Credited and blamed for coining the idiom
>>"Venom 2020," Wilson sums up the e-mail list by saying, "I think it's an
>>embarrassment to the community."

Where in this rather short paragraph does it say anything about shutting 
down the forum, limiting free speech, or curtailing the first amendment?
I obviously disagree with his assessment but I am fairly sure that putting 
it out there is not the same as censorship.

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] LMT Feb 19 -- Cyber soapbox stirs debate


> THIS is just the kind of thing Wilson would love - take down the system 
> that he hates most, that being free speech or any speech that threatens to 
> expose him.  This is not the first time he has suggested and pushed for 
> V2020 be shut down and I am sure he will push until it gets done.
>
> So much for the First Amendment.
>
> Side note:  funny how V2020 is an embarrassment now, since he has stopped 
> posting.  I suppose his site, the site where he blames everyone else for 
> his shortcomings, isn't an embarrassment to the community or his 
> followers?
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>To: "AreaMan" <areaman at moscow.com>,        "'Moscow Vision 2020'" 
>><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] LMT Feb 19 -- Cyber soapbox stirs debate
>>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:20:04 -0800
>>
>>Dan, Thanks for putting up the LMT article. I had no idea of the risks and 
>>problems First Step might potentially encounter. Mr. Moore, if you are 
>>"lurking" out there, thanks.
>>
>>On a related note Dave quotes one of my posts and identifies it as 
>>grouchy. This is the second time this sobriquet has been used in 
>>conjunction with my online blather. I am very sorry for coming across this 
>>way and will endeavor to correct the matter. I have always thought of 
>>myself as the Katie Couric/Mary Sunshine of the V.  Imagine how my perky 
>>self image and delicate ego are drooping. I am going to have to go back 
>>and reread some Tom Hansen musings to bolster my flagging spirits.
>>
>>gc
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "AreaMan" <areaman at moscow.com>
>>To: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:06 AM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] LMT Feb 19 -- Cyber soapbox stirs debate
>>
>>
>>>Part 3 -- The Big One:
>>>------------------------
>>>
>>>Cyber soapbox stirs debate; Is unique forum a wild ride on free-speech
>>>express or a vicious circle for Moscow mud-slingers to spew their brand
>>>of venom? That depends on who you ask
>>>
>>>By DAVID JOHNSON of the Tribune
>>>
>>>MOSCOW -- The original soapbox in Hyde Park was made of wood and became
>>>a universal symbol of free speech.
>>>
>>>Orators from the dimwitted to the rhetorically superior still gather at
>>>the corner of London's Park Lane and Cumberland Gate to publicly spout
>>>their opinions.
>>>
>>>A contemporary Hyde Park variant can be found in this Latah County
>>>college town. But instead of wood, the soapbox is made of cyberspace
>>>technology. And after 12 years, say those who speak through their
>>>computer keyboards, the Vision 2020 e-mail list has become both a
>>>vehicle for, and a target of fiery debate.
>>>
>>>Some call the Vision 2020 experience a quintessential online exercise in
>>>First Amendment rights, brimming with smart talk and generating valuable
>>>public discourse.
>>>
>>>Others brand it "Venom 2020" and mock the local Internet medium as a
>>>bane to civil dialogue, laced with pettiness and dominated by
>>>self-important windbags.
>>>
>>>One thing for sure -- Vision 2020, in all its unfettered unruliness, has
>>>defined itself as the kind of soapbox that continues to push the
>>>boundaries of free speech, perhaps, some fear, to the point of eventual
>>>self-inflicted silence.
>>>
>>>*****
>>>
>>>The disclaimer that appears on the Vision 2020 Web site is laced with
>>>lawyer talk such as, "This list is only the vehicle that facilitates
>>>this public discourse, and no person or hosting ISP is responsible for
>>>the content."
>>>
>>>The site is offered and maintained by First Step Internet, a
>>>Moscow-based Internet service provider.
>>>Bill Moore, director of technology for First Step Internet, calls the
>>>company's sponsorship of Vision 2020 a "scary," money-losing proposition
>>>rooted in public service and vulnerable to the kind of verbal wars that
>>>would render most television censors, newspaper editors and libel
>>>attorneys speechless.
>>>
>>>"It really gets to be a free-for-all," Moore says. "We refuse to enforce
>>>any rules."
>>>
>>>In fact, virtually everything that's been written on Vision 2020 since
>>>1994 -- every vitriolic attack, all words of wisdom, every cuss word,
>>>all political insights, every partisan cheap shot, all public service
>>>announcements, every unfounded allegation, all the eloquent rhetorical
>>>essays, and every dumb sentence -- has been preserved. It exists in the
>>>Vision 2020 archives and is available to anyone who logs on to the Web
>>>site.
>>>
>>>What's more, subscribers can pound out any message they want, or they
>>>don't have to write a lick. They can simply lurk behind the scenes.
>>>
>>>"Most of our subscribers are lurkers," confirms Moore. Of the nearly 500
>>>people currently subscribing to Vision 2020, he estimates only about 10
>>>percent are active contributors.
>>>"The heart and soul of this thing is only a dozen, maybe up to 50, who
>>>keep it going."
>>>
>>>The existence of a so-called "Dirty Dozen," says Moore, is bantered
>>>about. And indeed, there is a handful of people who post just about
>>>every day. Subject matter ranges these days from the war in Iraq and
>>>Wal-Mart super centers to local politics and religion.
>>>
>>>Of the public officials who subscribe, most use the site to make public
>>>service announcements. Some admit to lurking. A few match wits with
>>>other posters.
>>>
>>>"I utilize it to post my legislative letter each week along with special
>>>legislative news," says State Rep. Tom Trail, R-Moscow. "I do not engage
>>>in the day-to-day Vision 2020 exchanges."
>>>
>>>Keely Emerine Mix, a member of the Moscow School Board, opts to mix it
>>>up. "I post," she says, "because there's a point of view that I hold
>>>that isn't well represented, and that's of a biblically conservative,
>>>albeit politically somewhat liberal, evangelical."
>>>
>>>Moscow Mayor Nancy Chaney champions Vision 2020 as a vehicle for
>>>legitimate public debate and sometimes a means to set the record
>>>straight. During November's election, for example, a Vision 2020 post
>>>from an anonymous "Jane Doe" resurrected old, unsubstantiated rumors
>>>about Chaney's opponent, Peg Hamlett.
>>>
>>>"This is at least the third time people supporting Nancy Chaney for
>>>Mayor have resorted to this garbage and distortion of facts," retorted
>>>regular Vision 2020 poster Donovan Arnold of Moscow.
>>>
>>>Chaney promptly mounted her keyboard with a response: "You know that I
>>>am an honest, fair, civil, intelligent person," Chaney wrote.
>>>"Presumably, you will also surmise that I would have none of the tactics
>>>posted by the likes of Jane Doe. Please do not confuse my opinions,
>>>practices, or personal integrity with the likes of those who get their
>>>satisfaction from slinging mud."
>>>
>>>Other posters pounced on Jane Doe and the anonymous person went away.
>>>But some say the damage was complete. Hamlett lost the election.
>>>
>>>Moore winces when he ponders such exchanges. He concedes part of him
>>>wants to muzzle much of what shows up on Vision 2020, if not for the
>>>distortions and factual failings, then for the meanness and potentially
>>>libelous attacks.
>>>
>>>"Sometimes I think, 'you know what, this is getting out of control. We
>>>need someone to moderate it.' " But tampering with the posted messages,
>>>says Moore, could put the legal onus on First Step Internet. So he
>>>maintains the e-mail list, but keeps his hands off the content.
>>>
>>>"You can't hold the soapbox responsible," he reasons.
>>>
>>>****
>>>
>>>Bill London, a local writer and civic activist, is one of the founders
>>>of Vision 2020. He's quick to point out that Vision 2020 started as a
>>>"face-to-face" group of people concerned about growth in Moscow.
>>>
>>>Kenton Bird, now director of the University of Idaho School of
>>>Journalism and Mass Media, is also credited with starting Vision 2020,
>>>as is Susan Palmer, now a sociology professor at Walla Walla Community
>>>College.
>>>
>>>London remains linked to Vision 2020, in that he works with Moore to
>>>ensure the future of the electronic soapbox. And like Moore, London says
>>>Vision 2020 morphed from being a group of concerned citizens to a
>>>vehicle for discourse between concerned citizens.
>>>
>>>Greg Brown, who worked in computer services at UI, is credited with
>>>building the original vehicle. "I have taken the liberty of setting up a
>>>Vision 2020 listserv group," reads an e-mail he wrote in late 1994 and
>>>remains in the Vision 2020 archives. "This service will allow you to
>>>conveniently mail to everyone in the Vision 2020 list without
>>>maintaining a list of your own."
>>>
>>>Bird, according to the archives, was first to post.
>>>
>>>"Greetings," wrote Bird. "I'm so excited about our listserver I couldn't
>>>wait to try it out!"
>>>
>>>Bird, Palmer and Brown were the only ones to post messages during the
>>>first month Vision 2020 was up and running. The number of posts jumped
>>>to around 10 the next month, followed by more than 80 the month after
>>>and today the posts number between 30 and 60 per day, depending on how
>>>heated the issues might be.
>>>
>>>Once the electronic soapbox became an entity unto itself, say London,
>>>Bird and Palmer, it continued to morph into what has become a raspy
>>>exercise of First Amendment rights and unencumbered free speech.
>>>
>>>"I think it really exists on its own. It's like an amoebae scrounging
>>>around out there," says London, adding that a scrounging amoebae isn't
>>>always a pretty sight.
>>>
>>>"We were hoping that it would become a way for the public to educate
>>>themselves, and strengthen civic dialogue," London says of how he and
>>>others viewed Vision 2020 once it took on a life of its own. "Of course,
>>>to a great degree, it's a great failure because of the pettiness and
>>>name-calling."
>>>
>>>Bird and Palmer agree. Both say they rarely, if ever, post.
>>>
>>>"I haven't looked at Vision 2020 probably since the fall of 2004, the
>>>presidential election," Bird says. "It wasn't so much the tone of the
>>>discourse as much as the shear volume that drove me off." Bird says his
>>>e-mail account is flooded enough without having it overflow with Vision
>>>2020 posts. His colleagues, however, continue to lurk and keep him
>>>posted about the dialogue.
>>>
>>>Palmer says she doesn't even lurk. "I'm a little disillusioned," she
>>>says. "For awhile it had a great public service aspect. For example, my
>>>cat got lost."
>>>
>>>Palmer says she posted news of the lost cat and it was found a few hours
>>>later.
>>>
>>>That sort of thing continues to happen on Vision 2020. Lost dogs and
>>>cats are found. People exchange recipes. Agendas for public meetings are
>>>posted. And even the debates, more often than not, end with good things
>>>happening, London says.
>>>
>>>The failures, contends London, pale in comparison to the unique service
>>>Vision 2020 continues to provide and the potential for its participants
>>>to police themselves and actually raise the level of discourse.
>>>
>>>All that comes against assessments offered by the likes of Doug Wilson,
>>>pastor of Moscow's Christ Church and a perpetual target (some say by his
>>>own making) on Vision 2020. Credited and blamed for coining the idiom
>>>"Venom 2020," Wilson sums up the e-mail list by saying, "I think it's an
>>>embarrassment to the community."
>>>
>>>****
>>>
>>>At the request of the Lewiston Tribune, London came up with 12 of the
>>>more active posters on Vision 2020 and posted a request for them to
>>>contact the newspaper if they wanted to offer their assessment of the
>>>e-mail list.
>>>
>>>"My experience with things like this is that no good can possibly come
>>>of it," groused one person. "I would be happy to defer my position to
>>>someone else."
>>>
>>>Several people, however, jumped at the opportunity and offered their
>>>views via e-mail.
>>>
>>>"I believe that the most beneficial attribute of Moscow Vision 2020 is
>>>its openness," writes Tom Hansen, one of the more prolific contributors.
>>>"It is like a community social club with the proverbial soap box and an
>>>open mic 24/7. The biggest complaint that I have is when a topic
>>>degenerates to name calling. I have been guilty of it myself on
>>>occasion, although with less and less frequency."
>>>
>>>Writes Phil Nisbet, a relatively recent arrival to the list who posts
>>>regularly, "What's good about V 2020? It's a good early warning system
>>>for plans germinated by the left in Moscow. What's bad about it? Knowing
>>>what they plan requires you to respond, which in turn makes you a
>>>target."
>>>
>>>Joan Opyr, known locally as Auntie Establishment, sums up her regular
>>>participation as a means "to entertain, to inform, and to be part of the
>>>larger community conversation. I'm naturally gregarious. I'm also an
>>>incorrigible smart-ass. Vision 2020 helps me get in touch with my inner
>>>Groucho Marx."
>>>
>>>"Another bad thing about V 2020 is that some people think it adequately
>>>reflects the Moscow community at large," writes Dan Carscallen, another
>>>regular on the list. "Hogwash. While it is somewhat pervasive, there are
>>>still people in Moscow who don't even know what Vision 2020 is."
>>>
>>>****
>>>
>>>After all is never said and never done, because that is the nature of an
>>>unmoderated listserv, Vision 2020's future is as tenuous as its history
>>>is rancorous. London and Moore concede they don't like to even broach
>>>the idea Vision 2020 disappearing, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who
>>>really contemplates how and why Vision 2020 works.
>>>
>>>It works because it exists on its own -- unmoderated and unencumbered by
>>>the legal constraints of other media like television, radio and
>>>newspapers. Even the blogs on the Internet are usually sponsored,
>>>written or edited by a person who controls the site and therefore
>>>assumes some legal responsibility.
>>>
>>>Vision 2020 works differently because of First Step Internet's hands-off
>>>support. As Moore explains, his company is willing to maintain the
>>>soapbox, but has nothing to do with what those who climb aboard say
>>>about anything.
>>>
>>>"The idea is we do it for a public service," Moore says. So when people
>>>on both sides of issues and the political spectrum get upset with Vision
>>>2020, they howl to Moore.
>>>
>>>"We are walking that tightrope. Sometimes the right-wingers hate our
>>>guts, same with the left-wingers. We take this responsibility
>>>seriously."
>>>
>>>And therein lies the threat to Vision 2020's future.
>>>
>>>Because no one moderates the site, no one edits what's written. And when
>>>all that is written becomes part of the public discourse, Vision 2020
>>>becomes vulnerable to sabotage.
>>>
>>>Despite all the self-policing the participants attempt, the risk is
>>>always present that someone will push the free-speech envelop too far
>>>and First Step Internet might opt to dismantle the soapbox.
>>>
>>>"It's a little scary, so we're always watching and monitoring," Moore
>>>says.
>>>
>>>The Internet address for Vision 2020 is www.vision2020.moscow.com.
>>>Subscriptions are free.
>>>-----------------------
>>>It ain't easy bein' free,
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>_____________________________________________________
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net 
>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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