[Vision2020] Plan in Action
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Thu Feb 16 20:24:04 PST 2006
Pat,
The point I would make in response to your comments is by way of an
observation: I can't remember any wrong being righted, nor any movement
stopped in its tracks, because I spoke out against it. In fact, if my
record of success mattered at all to me, I'd be a fool to continue my
efforts -- efforts for which "tilting at windmills" would be a generous
assessment indeed.
The thing is, my place in life is not to win battles, but to fight them.
The victory is up to One far greater than me, and I have no guarantee that
I'll "win" any argument or battle I enter into. But if I keep silent when
wrongs are committed, I think I bear some complicity. Likewise, if I
remember what is good and what the Lord requires of me -- to do justice, and
to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God -- then I'll speak justice,
truth, and mercy. That pleases God, and that's all that matters.
keely
From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:39:46 -0800
But it is still his churches business not the citys and not mine I do not go
to his church. If you don't like it don't go there and don't listen to him
but it is not OUR choice. I doubt that your posts are having any affect on
his church. We cannot do anything about it and I do not know what we would
or should do that would make you happy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
Get this: Doug is blaming other people for his - HIS - actions. He is
putting their reputation, their credibility, their character out there in a
smear job and people who allow it withOUT saying anything, are only adding
to his deception.
Those who are not part of the solution are part of the problem, as a very
good person reminded me of today.
Do I suggest you move? no; but neither do I suggest you or others continue
to allow this man to retain and gain more power to do harm to others and to
this town. You don't think what he is doing affects you? Check out your
tax obligation compared to his. And he does it behind the "shield" of being
an "ordained" or "anointed" minister - WHICH HE IS NOT!!!
J :]
>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:52:35 -0800
>
>All right J:], Let's assume for just a moment and just for the sake of
>arguement that you are absolutley 100% spot on with your daring expose of
>the ultimate evil that is Douglas Wilson. What would you have me do? Move
>to Bolivia? Paint myself lavender and yodel latvian sea shantys? Here is a
>hot tip for you. Mr Wilson has no more power over my life than you do. On
>several occasions I have been within 25 yards of his emminence and he did
>not manage to suck out my soul and replace it with that which is truely
>evil, lima beans & okra. Maybe he's waiting till your warning has worn
off
>and I'm unsuspecting, crafty fellow that he is. (but I doubt it)
>
>gc
>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>
>
>>So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of
power",
>>for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy that Mr.
>>Wilson is, is a waste of my time? Well, it is my time and I certainly
>>will continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see things that
>>I feel are just plain and simply wrong.
>>
>>Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he
was
>>"explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the fault
>>of someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that one
>>didn't he?
>>
>>And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and
so
>>right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his church
>>at this time.
>>
>>J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
>>>
>>>Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your
>>>posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come
>>>to the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the
>>>minister for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of
>>>your decision but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to
>>>convince folks who are not your fellow congregants seems kind of
>>>obsessive. Endless droning about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters
>>>not sent" may be of some interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm
>>>guessing not many. Far be it from me to tell you what to do or think but
>>>might I suggest you give some thought to doing what people who have
>>>become disenchanted with their current faith community have done for
>>>ages. Find or found a new one more to your liking. Reverend Ford has a
>>>certain ring to it and who knows, a church that features lots of pithy
>>>phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?) and Winney the Pooh references
might
>>>just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch of scatological comments and
>>>inappropriate sexual references and Mr. Hansen and Mr. Fox will almost
>>>certainly jump on board. How about as a congregational mascot, tigger
>>>dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
>>>
>>>I'm just sayin'
>>>gc
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>
>>>
>>>>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been
>>>>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions. If
>>>>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new
>>>>excuse is JUST now coming out. Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need
>>>>teaches a plan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They
>>>>couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember
>>>>that the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest
mistake
>>>>because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... Is this
>>>>YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this
explanation
>>>>from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked to them then
>>>>you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no way of knowing
>>>>why they did what they did. If you have talked to them and are passing
>>>>on what they told you, then you're depending on their memory. Memories
>>>>which your earlier argument admits are faulty.
>>>>
>>>> M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
>>>>
>>>> M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed
>>>>they were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with
(something
>>>>like) verbal approval because everyone was not physically present. That
>>>>kind of thing happens. I am not physically going to sign this post. Or
>>>>they didn't notice that the signatures were missing. They either didn't
>>>>notice, and made this honest mistake, or they noticed and made the
>>>>honest mistake. When it comes to signatures, in this situation, all
>>>>kinds of weird things have happened. It is understandable to not see
>>>>that a signature is missing in the flurry of answering a battery of
>>>>charges. But Bob Callihan signed his "this is only a proposal" letter,
>>>>and it has been three years with us pointing at it, and Terry still
>>>>can't see it. Can you see it? Signatures are funny.
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
>>>>
>>>> Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a
>>>>simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave
>>>>them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ
>>>>out of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's
>>>>hearts. We have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a
>>>>video recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the
trouble
>>>>they would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, and we
>>>>have to take that in good faith because they are our brothers in Christ
>>>>. If it is from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear from God
>>>>than they do from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love "thinketh no
>>>>evil" (1 Cor. 13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be considered
>>>>innocent until proven guilty.
>>>>
>>>> D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
>>>>
>>>> Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men
>>>>are my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But
>>>>let us say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men
>>>>for whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever,
>>>>whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the
>>>>reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the
>>>>letter was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they
>>>>claimed this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would
>>>>call them on it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't
>>>>sent, but they tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these
men
>>>>are stupid. These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest
>>>>mistake. If it was an attempt to pull something, we would have brazened
>>>>it out. Terry has made a number of claims from that time without
>>>>signatures. We could have just done the same. But as soon as the
mistake
>>>>was pointed out, we realized the mistake, apologized, and dropped it.
>>>>This was a good example. "Dropping it" is a spiritual exercise that a
>>>>lot of people I know could profit from.
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
>>>>
>>>> Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are
>>>>honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with
>>>>it. When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation
and
>>>>not theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are NOT
>>>>speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. I've
>>>>shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further
>>>>explain yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become
>>>>reasonable just because you say it is.
>>>>
>>>> M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
>>>>
>>>> David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses
his
>>>>own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
>>>>
>>>> M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
>>>>
>>>> M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to
>>>>explain things like this to people who don't really want an
explanation.
>>>>You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw signatures
>>>>where there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not see a
>>>>signature when it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? And
>>>>Mark, I am afraid I am going to have to *demand* an explanation from
you
>>>>on this. And as soon as you offer it, I will shake my head, tsk for a
>>>>moment, and announce that your explanation is no explanation at all. In
>>>>fact, I will not really hear your explanation of Terry's inability to
>>>>see Bob's signature because I will be too busy shaking the pom poms for
>>>>my team in this debate. And if you protest that your explanation "was
>>>>too" reasonable, I will just say nope. Not reasonable. Would that be a
>>>>good way to proceed?
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
>>>>
>>>>J :]
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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