[Vision2020] Plan in Action

Art Deco deco at moscow.com
Thu Feb 16 14:52:04 PST 2006


Crabtree states to J Ford:

"Mr Wilson has no more power over my life than you do."

Yet J Ford has managed to incite you to make these postings, and therefore 
is controlling part of your life.

W.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action


> All right J:], Let's assume for just a moment and just for the sake of 
> arguement that you are  absolutley 100% spot on with your daring expose of 
> the ultimate evil that is Douglas Wilson. What would you have me do? Move 
> to Bolivia? Paint myself lavender and yodel latvian sea shantys? Here is a 
> hot tip for you. Mr Wilson has no more power over my life than you do.  On 
> several occasions I have been within 25 yards of his emminence and he did 
> not manage to suck out my soul and replace it with that which is truely 
> evil, lima beans & okra.  Maybe he's waiting till your warning has worn 
> off and I'm unsuspecting, crafty fellow that he is. (but I doubt it)
>
> gc
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>
>
>> So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of 
>> power", for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy 
>> that Mr. Wilson is, is a waste of my time?  Well, it is my time and I 
>> certainly will continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see 
>> things that I feel are just plain and simply wrong.
>>
>> Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he 
>> was "explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the 
>> fault of someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that 
>> one didn't he?
>>
>> And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and 
>> so right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his 
>> church at this time.
>>
>> J  :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
>>>
>>>Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your 
>>>posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come 
>>>to the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the 
>>>minister for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of 
>>>your decision but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to 
>>>convince folks who are not your fellow congregants seems kind of 
>>>obsessive. Endless droning  about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters 
>>>not sent" may be of some interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm 
>>>guessing not many. Far be it from me to tell you what to do or think but 
>>>might I suggest you give some thought to doing what people who have 
>>>become disenchanted with their current faith community have done for 
>>>ages. Find or found a new one more to your liking. Reverend Ford  has a 
>>>certain ring to it and who knows, a church that features lots of pithy 
>>>phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?) and Winney the Pooh references might 
>>>just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch of scatological comments and 
>>>inappropriate sexual references and Mr. Hansen and Mr. Fox will almost 
>>>certainly jump on board. How about as a congregational mascot, tigger 
>>>dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
>>>
>>>I'm just sayin'
>>>gc
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>
>>>
>>>>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been 
>>>>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions.  If 
>>>>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new 
>>>>excuse is JUST now coming out.  Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need 
>>>>teaches a plan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They 
>>>> couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember 
>>>> that the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest 
>>>> mistake because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... 
>>>> Is this YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this 
>>>> explanation from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked 
>>>> to them then you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no 
>>>> way of knowing why they did what they did. If you have talked to them 
>>>> and are passing on what they told you, then you're depending on their 
>>>> memory. Memories which your earlier argument admits are faulty.
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
>>>>
>>>>    M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed 
>>>> they were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with 
>>>> (something like) verbal approval because everyone was not physically 
>>>> present. That kind of thing happens. I am not physically going to sign 
>>>> this post. Or they didn't notice that the signatures were missing. They 
>>>> either didn't notice, and made this honest mistake, or they noticed and 
>>>> made the honest mistake. When it comes to signatures, in this 
>>>> situation, all kinds of weird things have happened. It is 
>>>> understandable to not see that a signature is missing in the flurry of 
>>>> answering a battery of charges. But Bob Callihan signed his "this is 
>>>> only a proposal" letter, and it has been three years with us pointing 
>>>> at it, and Terry still can't see it. Can you see it? Signatures are 
>>>> funny.
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a 
>>>> simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave 
>>>> them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ 
>>>> out of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's 
>>>> hearts. We have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a 
>>>> video recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the 
>>>> trouble they would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, 
>>>> and we have to take that in good faith because they are our brothers in 
>>>> Christ . If it is from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear 
>>>> from God than they do from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love 
>>>> "thinketh no evil" (1 Cor. 13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be 
>>>> considered innocent until proven guilty.
>>>>
>>>>        D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men 
>>>> are my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But 
>>>> let us say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men 
>>>> for whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever, 
>>>> whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the 
>>>> reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the 
>>>> letter was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they 
>>>> claimed this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would 
>>>> call them on it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't 
>>>> sent, but they tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these 
>>>> men are stupid. These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest 
>>>> mistake. If it was an attempt to pull something, we would have brazened 
>>>> it out. Terry has made a number of claims from that time without 
>>>> signatures. We could have just done the same. But as soon as the 
>>>> mistake was pointed out, we realized the mistake, apologized, and 
>>>> dropped it. This was a good example. "Dropping it" is a spiritual 
>>>> exercise that a lot of people I know could profit from.
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are 
>>>> honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with 
>>>> it. When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation 
>>>> and not theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are 
>>>> NOT speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. 
>>>> I've shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further 
>>>> explain yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become 
>>>> reasonable just because you say it is.
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
>>>>
>>>>    David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses his 
>>>> own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
>>>>
>>>>    M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to 
>>>> explain things like this to people who don't really want an 
>>>> explanation. You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw 
>>>> signatures where there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not 
>>>> see a signature when it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? 
>>>> And Mark, I am afraid I am going to have to *demand* an explanation 
>>>> from you on this. And as soon as you offer it, I will shake my head, 
>>>> tsk for a moment, and announce that your explanation is no explanation 
>>>> at all. In fact, I will not really hear your explanation of Terry's 
>>>> inability to see Bob's signature because I will be too busy shaking the 
>>>> pom poms for my team in this debate. And if you protest that your 
>>>> explanation "was too" reasonable, I will just say nope. Not reasonable. 
>>>> Would that be a good way to proceed?
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
>>>>
>>>>J  :]
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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