[Vision2020] Plan in Action
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 16 12:25:20 PST 2006
This is not a personal fight with Wilson, et al - believe it or not this
organization is affecting this whole community. When you have one person
and his organization taking over or attempting to take over a community,
EVERYone has to be involved and worried. The fact that you refuse to
understand the power and corrupting influence this person has only speaks of
your inability or refusal to see the whole picture.
The lying man has promised whatever thing he could; the greedy man believes
him and thinks his promise good.
J :]
>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:50:46 -0800
>
>If Wilson was in government he would have some type of power over all of us
>but he isn't. I fear only you and a few others feel his power over you here
>in Moscow...only in Moscow. And judging by how well some on this site have
>decided who I am I have no fear saying that they are profoundly wrong about
>CCC also. I also have wished that you and Wilson would take your personal
>attacks elsewhere. This site, as I understand it is supposed to be about
>the
>growth and changes in Moscow...not who is the leader of ANY church. You
>apparently have had an experience with CCC that you felt went bad and that
>seems to be a mutual feeling but I do not think that this site is a good
>place to air this grievance. We can all read the words of someone and have
>no real idea who they are and that is true of all the posters. I really do
>not think that Doug Wilson has horns and pitchfork nor do I believe that
>anyone else on this site is as disgusting as some would have us believe.
>
>
>If we do discover a complete theory..of everything...we shall all,
>philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people,
>be able to take part in the discussion of why it is that we and the
>universe
>exist if we find the answer to that,
>it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason...for then we would know
>the mind of God.
>Stephen Hawking
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>
>
>So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of power",
>for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy that Mr.
>Wilson is, is a waste of my time? Well, it is my time and I certainly will
>continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see things that I feel
>are just plain and simply wrong.
>
>Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he was
>"explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the fault of
>someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that one didn't
>he?
>
>And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and so
>right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his church
>at
>this time.
>
>J :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> >To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
> >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
> >
> >Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your
> >posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come
>to
> >the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the minister
> >for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of your
>decision
> >but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to convince folks
>who
> >are not your fellow congregants seems kind of obsessive. Endless droning
> >about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters not sent" may be of some
> >interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm guessing not many. Far be it
> >from me to tell you what to do or think but might I suggest you give some
> >thought to doing what people who have become disenchanted with their
> >current faith community have done for ages. Find or found a new one more
>to
> >your liking. Reverend Ford has a certain ring to it and who knows, a
> >church that features lots of pithy phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?)
>and
> >Winney the Pooh references might just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch of
> >scatological comments and inappropriate sexual references and Mr. Hansen
> >and Mr. Fox will almost certainly jump on board. How about as a
> >congregational mascot, tigger dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
> >
> >I'm just sayin'
> >gc
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
> >
> >
> >>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been
> >>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions. If
> >>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new
>excuse
> >>is JUST now coming out. Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need teaches a
> >>plan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They
> >>couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember
>that
> >>the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest mistake
> >>because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... Is this
> >>YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this explanation
> >>from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked to them then
> >>you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no way of knowing
> >>why they did what they did. If you have talked to them and are passing
>on
> >>what they told you, then you're depending on their memory. Memories
>which
> >>your earlier argument admits are faulty.
> >>
> >> M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
> >>
> >> M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed
>they
> >>were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with (something
>like)
> >>verbal approval because everyone was not physically present. That kind
>of
> >>thing happens. I am not physically going to sign this post. Or they
>didn't
> >>notice that the signatures were missing. They either didn't notice, and
> >>made this honest mistake, or they noticed and made the honest mistake.
> >>When it comes to signatures, in this situation, all kinds of weird
>things
> >>have happened. It is understandable to not see that a signature is
>missing
> >>in the flurry of answering a battery of charges. But Bob Callihan signed
> >>his "this is only a proposal" letter, and it has been three years with
>us
> >>pointing at it, and Terry still can't see it. Can you see it? Signatures
> >>are funny.
> >>
> >> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
> >>
> >> Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a
> >>simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave
> >>them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ
>out
> >>of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's hearts. We
> >>have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a video
> >>recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the trouble they
> >>would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, and we have
>to
> >>take that in good faith because they are our brothers in Christ . If it
>is
> >>from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear from God than they
>do
> >>from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love "thinketh no evil" (1 Cor.
> >>13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be considered innocent until
> >>proven guilty.
> >>
> >> D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
> >>
> >> Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men
>are
> >>my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But let
>us
> >>say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men for
> >>whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever,
> >>whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the
> >>reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the
>letter
> >>was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they claimed
> >>this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would call them
>on
> >>it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't sent, but they
> >>tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these men are stupid.
> >>These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest mistake. If it was
>an
> >>attempt to pull something, we would have brazened it out. Terry has made
>a
> >>number of claims from that time without signatures. We could have just
> >>done the same. But as soon as the mistake was pointed out, we realized
>the
> >>mistake, apologized, and dropped it. This was a good example. "Dropping
> >>it" is a spiritual exercise that a lot of people I know could profit
>from.
> >>
> >> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
> >>
> >> Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are
> >>honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with
>it.
> >>When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation and not
> >>theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are NOT
> >>speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. I've
> >>shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further
>explain
> >>yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become reasonable
>just
> >>because you say it is.
> >>
> >> M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
> >>
> >> David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses his
> >>own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
> >>
> >> M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
> >>
> >> M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to
> >>explain things like this to people who don't really want an explanation.
> >>You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw signatures
>where
> >>there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not see a signature
>when
> >>it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? And Mark, I am afraid
>I
> >>am going to have to *demand* an explanation from you on this. And as
>soon
> >>as you offer it, I will shake my head, tsk for a moment, and announce
>that
> >>your explanation is no explanation at all. In fact, I will not really
>hear
> >>your explanation of Terry's inability to see Bob's signature because I
> >>will be too busy shaking the pom poms for my team in this debate. And if
> >>you protest that your explanation "was too" reasonable, I will just say
> >>nope. Not reasonable. Would that be a good way to proceed?
> >>
> >> Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
> >>
> >>J :]
> >>
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