[Vision2020] Plan in Action

Thu Feb 16 09:17:46 PST 2006

So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of power", 
for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy that Mr. 
Wilson is, is a waste of my time?  Well, it is my time and I certainly will 
continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see things that I feel 
are just plain and simply wrong.

Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he was 
"explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the fault of 
someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that one didn't 
he?

And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and so 
right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his church at 
this time.

J  :]

>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
>
>Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your 
>posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come to 
>the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the minister 
>for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of your decision 
>but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to convince folks who 
>are not your fellow congregants seems kind of obsessive. Endless droning  
>about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters not sent" may be of some 
>interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm guessing not many. Far be it 
>from me to tell you what to do or think but might I suggest you give some 
>thought to doing what people who have become disenchanted with their 
>current faith community have done for ages. Find or found a new one more to 
>your liking. Reverend Ford  has a certain ring to it and who knows, a 
>church that features lots of pithy phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?) and 
>Winney the Pooh references might just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch of 
>scatological comments and inappropriate sexual references and Mr. Hansen 
>and Mr. Fox will almost certainly jump on board. How about as a 
>congregational mascot, tigger dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
>
>I'm just sayin'
>gc
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>
>
>>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been 
>>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions.  If 
>>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new excuse 
>>is JUST now coming out.  Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need teaches a 
>>plan.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They 
>>couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember that 
>>the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest mistake 
>>because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... Is this 
>>YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this explanation 
>>from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked to them then 
>>you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no way of knowing 
>>why they did what they did. If you have talked to them and are passing on 
>>what they told you, then you're depending on their memory. Memories which 
>>your earlier argument admits are faulty.
>>
>>        M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
>>
>>    M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed they 
>>were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with (something like) 
>>verbal approval because everyone was not physically present. That kind of 
>>thing happens. I am not physically going to sign this post. Or they didn't 
>>notice that the signatures were missing. They either didn't notice, and 
>>made this honest mistake, or they noticed and made the honest mistake. 
>>When it comes to signatures, in this situation, all kinds of weird things 
>>have happened. It is understandable to not see that a signature is missing 
>>in the flurry of answering a battery of charges. But Bob Callihan signed 
>>his "this is only a proposal" letter, and it has been three years with us 
>>pointing at it, and Terry still can't see it. Can you see it? Signatures 
>>are funny.
>>
>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
>>
>>    Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a 
>>simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave 
>>them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ out 
>>of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's hearts. We 
>>have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a video 
>>recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the trouble they 
>>would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, and we have to 
>>take that in good faith because they are our brothers in Christ . If it is 
>>from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear from God than they do 
>>from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love "thinketh no evil" (1 Cor. 
>>13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be considered innocent until 
>>proven guilty.
>>
>>        D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
>>
>>    Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men are 
>>my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But let us 
>>say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men for 
>>whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever, 
>>whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the 
>>reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the letter 
>>was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they claimed 
>>this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would call them on 
>>it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't sent, but they 
>>tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these men are stupid. 
>>These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest mistake. If it was an 
>>attempt to pull something, we would have brazened it out. Terry has made a 
>>number of claims from that time without signatures. We could have just 
>>done the same. But as soon as the mistake was pointed out, we realized the 
>>mistake, apologized, and dropped it. This was a good example. "Dropping 
>>it" is a spiritual exercise that a lot of people I know could profit from.
>>
>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
>>
>>    Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are 
>>honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with it. 
>>When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation and not 
>>theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are NOT 
>>speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. I've 
>>shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further explain 
>>yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become reasonable just 
>>because you say it is.
>>
>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
>>
>>    David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses his 
>>own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
>>
>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
>>
>>    M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to 
>>explain things like this to people who don't really want an explanation. 
>>You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw signatures where 
>>there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not see a signature when 
>>it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? And Mark, I am afraid I 
>>am going to have to *demand* an explanation from you on this. And as soon 
>>as you offer it, I will shake my head, tsk for a moment, and announce that 
>>your explanation is no explanation at all. In fact, I will not really hear 
>>your explanation of Terry's inability to see Bob's signature because I 
>>will be too busy shaking the pom poms for my team in this debate. And if 
>>you protest that your explanation "was too" reasonable, I will just say 
>>nope. Not reasonable. Would that be a good way to proceed?
>>
>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
>>
>>J  :]
>>
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