[Vision2020] Where Have Our Giants Gone (Molly Ivins)

Art Deco deco at moscow.com
Fri Feb 10 10:30:40 PST 2006 

Applying the same logic as your post:

Should V 2020 posters who lie be thrown off the list?

What about so-called scientific experts who lie?  Should they be banned 
forever from giving public testimony?

W.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <pkraut at moscow.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Where Have Our Giants Gone (Molly Ivins)


> Pat
>
> Actually Molly has a point here.  In the old days, when giants walked the 
> earth, a reporter who was busted for plagerism and for making up facts as 
> she went along would have been thrown on the street and had a hard time 
> finding work in the News business.  Now days, they move people like Molly 
> into the post as senior editorial writer and syndicate her rather than 
> firing them for journalistic misconduct.  And rather than accepting that 
> her history of lying to the public just might be a symptom of her extreme 
> bias, she ends up being the main fact source for some folks who willing 
> say, hey she said she was sorry the last time they caught her lying.
>
> Funny old world, ain't it just.
>
> Phil NIsbet
>
>
>>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Where Have Our Giants Gone (Molly Ivins)
>>Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:14:59 -0800
>>
>>"Risen is the New York Times reporter who
>>broke the story of the National Security Agency spying scandal."
>>He should be arrested for treason!
>>Tom you look at this stuff and see one thing and I look at it and see
>>another. I bet the terrorists are laughing at us and our inability to keep 
>>a
>>secret.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 6:47 AM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Where Have Our Giants Gone (Molly Ivins)
>>
>>
>> >From today's (February 10, 2006) Spokesman Review -
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Molly Ivins
>>
>>Where have our giants gone?
>>
>>February 10, 2006
>>
>>Once upon a time, in the middle of a nasty constitutional crisis in
>>Washington, a most unlikely hero emerged - a Texas lawyer from one of our
>>state's notoriously discriminated-against racial minorities. Think how 
>>lucky
>>we were.
>>
>>It is one of the most famous sentences in all of American rhetoric: "My
>>faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total." But what
>>catches the eye today is the sentence that followed that famous 
>>declaration,
>>the sentence that makes one so ashamed for Al Gonzales. Barbara Jordan's
>>great, deep voice brought the impeachment hearings against Richard Nixon 
>>to
>>an awed silence when she vowed, "And I am not going to sit here and be an
>>idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the
>>Constitution."
>>
>>Thirty years ago, this state could produce Barbara Jordan - and now we 
>>send
>>that pathetic pipsqueak Al Gonzales. Enough to provoke a wailing cry of "O
>>tempera, O mores!" even from the depths of Lubbock.
>>
>>As a New York Times editorial succinctly put it, Attorney General 
>>Gonzales'
>>Judiciary Committee appearance was a "daylong display of cynical
>>hair-splitting, obfuscation, disinformation and stonewalling."
>>
>>How fortunate that Republicans running the committee did not insist the
>>chief law enforcement officer of the United States take an oath before
>>testifying. God forbid that he should actually be held to the truth.
>>
>>I realize it's a cliché for those of us who remember the Beach Boys to 
>>mourn
>>the days when giants roamed the Earth and all was on a grander and finer
>>scale. But I knew Barbara Jordan, and I know Al Gonzales, and it is damned
>>depressing - he's too lightweight to even be a mediocrity.
>>
>>It seems to me the trumpery excuse for a hearing raised graver issues than
>>those of 30 years ago. Gonzales kept trying to frame the issue as a 
>>question
>>of whether or not a domestic spying program without warrants is illegal - 
>>in
>>fact, it is against the law.
>>
>>Gonzales maintained the law is superseded by some unwritten constitutional
>>power due the president during war and further that Congress had 
>>authorized
>>warrantless spying when giving the president the authority to invade
>>Afghanistan. Strange, so few who voted for invading Afghanistan recall
>>having warrantless spying in mind.
>>
>>One problem of legal logic is to "define war." We have not been attacked 
>>by
>>another nation - in fact, we were clearly the aggressors against Iraq. We
>>were attacked by a private group of ideological zealots led by a Saudi
>>millionaire. This war - against no nation, flag or territory - can
>>presumably last indefinitely, like our wars against drugs and crime.
>>
>>Impeachment, Barbara Jordan observed, "is designed to 'bridle' the 
>>executive
>>if he engages in excesses. . The Framers confined in the Congress the 
>>power,
>>if need be, to remove the president in order to strike a delicate balance
>>between a president swollen with power and grown tyrannical, and
>>preservation of the independence of the executive. . 'A president is
>>impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution.' "
>>
>>Nixon was accused, among other things, of misuse of the CIA. I highly
>>recommend James Risen's new book, "State of War: The Secret History of the
>>CIA and the Bush Administration." Risen is the New York Times reporter who
>>broke the story of the National Security Agency spying scandal.
>>
>>Thomas Powers, an authority on American intelligence, reviewed the Risen
>>book for the New York Review of Books and notes: "If the Constitution
>>forbids a president anything, it forbids war on his say-so, and if it
>>insists on anything, it insists that presidents are not above the law. In
>>plain terms, this means that presidents cannot enact laws on their own, or
>>ignore laws that have been enacted by Congress. .
>>
>>"In public life, as in kindergarten, the all-important word is no. We are
>>living with the consequences of the inability to say no to the president's
>>war of choice with Iraq, and we shall soon see how Congress and the courts
>>will respond to the latest challenge from the White House - the claim by
>>President Bush that he has the right to ignore FISA's prohibition of
>>government intrusion on the private communications of Americans without a
>>court order and his repeated statements that he intends to go right on 
>>doing
>>it."
>>
>>The time is coming when someone will have to say no. Sadly, I have a 
>>vision
>>of the impeachment panel, and I see Tom DeLay in the seat once occupied by
>>the great Barbara Jordan.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Take care, Moscow.
>>
>>Tom Hansen
>>Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>********************************************
>>
>>"In America, anybody can become president.
>>That's one of the risks you take . . ."
>>
>>- Adlai Stevenson
>>
>>********************************************
>>
>>
>>
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