[Vision2020] Cartoons

[Pat Kraut]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but I do believe that flying
planes into buildings is a good example of their hope to change our way of
life.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
Cc: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cartoons


On 2/5/06, Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
> I confess I am not sure what 'up in the night' means but No I have not
> changed. If you are unaware of the things the Islamic zealots are saying I
> suggest you do more research.

I'm quite aware of what Islamic zealots are saying. I'm just
interested in why you think that anything anyone else says can impinge
on your own right to free speech. There's been a healthy debate about
whether the cartoons were acceptable. I happen to believe that they
weren't, and if I were editor of the newspaper in which they appeared,
I would have sent them back -- not just because they're xenophobic,
but also because they simply aren't funny. I think the analogy is
closer to Piss Christ than the other example Phil used -- a swastika
on a rabbi. A swastika is an assault: a signifier intended to
intimidate.

There is, however, a difference between my perosnal disapproval of the
cartoons and what I believe the government should do about it, which
is to say, exactly nothing. And my mild condemnation of the cartoons
is nothing compared to my condemnation of those that would use force
to indimidate a free press. But there's a difference between
intimidation of a free press -- what the thugs burning down Danish
embassies across the Muslim world are doing -- and government
suppression of political speech, which is -- emphatically -- what
absolutely no one is doing.

The Islamic world is not a danger to our rights unless we choose to
make them so.

-- ACS

..it is far more
 frightning than anything any
> recent president has done. Except for those who ignored the problem so
that
> they felt so safe and the problem got so big!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <debismith at moscow.com>
> To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 1:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cartoons
>
>
> I  wonder if the "they" Pat referred to as trying to "take it away from
us"
> might have been the
> current administration? That's the only folks I see limiting free speech
in
> the US at this time...
> Perhaps Pat has had a change of perspective?
>
> I really am trying to give the benefit of the doubt to those v2020
> opinionaters I have often
> thought were (to quote my Mom) "up in the night". :)
>
> Debi R-S
>
>
>
> Date sent:      Sun, 5 Feb 2006 00:22:06 -0800
> From:           Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com>
> To:             Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com>
> Subject:        Re: [Vision2020] Cartoons
> Copies to:      vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
>
> On 2/4/06, Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> > I understand religion I just enjoy living in a country where we have
free
> > press among other things. And I am not going to sit idly by while they
try
> > to take it away from us. It is going to be interesting to see what
Europe
> > does with this.
>
> Pat --
>
> How are they "trying to take it away from us"? In what sense do
> Muslims in foreign countries have the capacity to take our free press
> away from us? You've got a tendency to treat Osama bin Landen as
> though he's landing transport ships in New York, not dying of kidney
> failure in a hole in Afghanistan. The fundamentalist protest against
> political cartoons in Denmark is pathetic -- and only dangerous to the
> people in Danish embassies in Muslim countries.
>
> -- ACS
>
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