[Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings abouthomosexuality

[g. crabtree]

Mr. Campbell seems to forget that while Mr. Wilson was fore square in favor 
of changes to the ordinances pertaining to proper dress, he did not change 
them. For that we had seven elected officials. Mr. Wilson and his 
congregation very actively lobbied for a change in much the same way that 
others are trying to make sure our fair flower of a town won't be sullied by 
a Wal-Mart superstore. Somehow this makes him "evil" and the no to WM crowd 
the chosen ones?

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings 
abouthomosexuality


> Dear Phil,
>
> No one that I know would compare the evils of CC/NSA with the evils of the 
> folks you note below. Some have made analogies between CC/NSA and the 
> folks noted below but these same folks know well the difference between 
> persecution and stoning, between defending the institution of slavery and 
> actually holding someone hostage. I’m not sure to whom your lesson is 
> directed, though I admit that much of what you say below is true and it is 
> a service to remind folks of those atrocities, least we grow lazy and 
> forget.
>
> Given recent comments by you and Pat, I feel a need to clarify a few 
> things.
>
> I think it is important to separate three things. First, there are the 
> various violations of zoning laws and tax codes that are committed by the 
> CC/NSA group. Second, there is their particular set of theological 
> beliefs. Third, there is the arrogant propensity of some — not all — 
> members of the group (Wilson and Iverson are two such folks) to inflict 
> their (let’s say) ‘different’ (mis)understandings of a holy text onto the 
> rest of us. I have commented on all of these matters but I try hard to 
> keep them separate. I have commented on the third matter as a proponent of 
> Mill’s liberal theory of law, on the second matter as a philosopher and 
> Christian, and on the third matter as a somewhat informed citizen. 
> Sometimes I think that the second and third matter is all a smokescreen to 
> hide the first matter. I think this especially when I see intelligent 
> folks like you and Pat and Gary falling for their PR slant of being the 
> persecuted ones, supposing that all that was at !
> issue was the second matter.
>
> The three matters above are connected in at least one way. Some — not 
> all — members of the CC/NSA group (Wilson and Iverson, in particular) have 
> an utter distain for the law. This fact is a result of the second matter 
> but manifested in the first and third matters. You don’t have to believe 
> me. Just go to your favorite Doug Wilson website and plug in ‘law’ in the 
> search engine. Or read the Ed Iverson column in the DN where he repeats 
> over and over again “the law is an ass.” I don’t know about you but folks 
> who have a documented history of violating the law and a brazen disrespect 
> for it scare me.
>
> Lastly, I do think that both you and Pat underestimate what I consider to 
> be the evil of Doug Wilson. Part of it is that you focus on the second 
> matter, completely forgetting about the third one. It is one thing to 
> believe — as Pat apparently does — that the Bible ‘says’ that 
> ‘homosexuality’ is wrong. I would dispute that (not that you couldn’t find 
> supporting words for the claim, but that those words best convey Christ’s 
> message). Here we are back to the second matter, a disagreement about 
> interpretation of a holy text. But interpretation is one thing. If the 
> CC/NSA crowd did nothing more than collect bizarre religious views 
> (forgetting, of course about the first matter) I would ignore them 
> completely. I myself have a collection of bizarre religious beliefs, so I 
> see no harm in this. BELIEF is one thing; ACTION is another. Once those 
> beliefs are manifested in some actish fashion — whether it is in the form 
> of changing Moscow’s laws about proper dress or !
> speaking out in an offensive and repulsive way — I feel it is my right, in 
> fact my obligation, to respond.
>
> Many of the folks in my own church believe that ‘homosexuality’ is wrong 
> and I get along with all of them just fine. What they do not do is 
> continually write and say offensive things about gays and lesbians. Of 
> course, people have a right to express their beliefs. But no one has a 
> right to be deliberately offensive and those that choose to express their 
> beliefs had better recognize my right to rebut them.
>
> For more on the evil of Doug Wilson you might check out poohsthink.com and 
> note that our own Michael Metzler is about to be excommunicated from CC. 
> What was his sin? Openly disagreeing with Doug Wilson. I won’t say that CC 
> is a cult. That would be offensive to the members of that church, most of 
> whom I do not know and many of whom seem to be to be wonderful, 
> intelligent people. I will say that Doug Wilson often acts as if he was 
> the leader of a cult and that concerns me.
>
> Best, Joe Campbell
>