[Vision2020] Give Devoted Military a Worthwhile War to Fight
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Thu Dec 28 11:10:54 PST 2006
Keely, although the relationship to Tom of said brother is not pertinent to
the point I made, still it was an oversight and I apologize for it.
My comment about Tom's defeatism was in reference to his conviction that we
cannot win in Iraq. It was accurate based on his ongoing opposition to the
mission our troops overwhelmingly support. You advise me that Tom deserves
gratitude for having served. I have never challenged that assertion - I've
in fact commended him for his service, but that does not mean he is
necessarily any more astute than the bulk of his fellow vets who disagree
with his far left politics. We all have experience and perspective and an
equal right to freedom of expression. Of course simply having lived through
a certain situation does not guarantee one will reach a logical and just
conclusion as to its resolution - that relies more on an ability to
recognize and consider subtle distinctions, rather than first hand
experience alone.
You insist that Cheney's change of mind on Iraq indicates a change in the
neocon mind. You fail entirely to address the possibility that the world
geopolitical landscape can change dramatically over the course of the 14
years between Cheney's statement and our invasion. Those who are friendly
one decade may become a threat later, those who are a threat now may become
an asset under certain circumstances later. It is unfair for you to apply a
statement made by Cheney 14 years ago regarding a certain regime, to a
situation faced today.
Happy New Year. -T
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Give Devoted Military a Worthwhile War to Fight
> Unless I'm reading it wrong, it's the columnist's brother, not Tom's.
>
> But that's not the only thing you got wrong, Tony. Tom Hansen is not a
> defeatist. He has guts and with his military service he's earned the
> right to our gratitude -- as well as having earned a platform of
> experience and perspective from which to criticize wrongdoing.
>
> His frequent citing of Dick Cheney's comment on "a classic definition of
> 'quagmire'" is an important reminder that "something" has changed in the
> neocon mind regarding justification of this war. The question continues
> to be what that something is, and if the change in strategy it wrought
> came from valid reasons. I contend that it didn't.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Give Devoted Military a Worthwhile War to Fight
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:20:36 -0800
>
> Nice try Tom, but the difference between you and your brother is that you
> are a defeatist who has no faith in our military while your brother thinks
> he can accomplish what he is tasked with.
>
> If the American people listen to the likes of you, we will withdraw in
> shame
> and defeat to the glee of our enemies. If they listen to the likes of
> your
> brother, we will likely achieve our objective to the dismay of our
> enemies.
>
> I wish him well.
>
> Best, -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 6:31 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Give Devoted Military a Worthwhile War to Fight
>
>
> > >From today's (December 27, 2006) Spokesman Review -
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Give devoted military a worthwhile war to fight
> > By Emily Miller
> > Washington Post
> > December 27, 2006
> >
> > Here is what my brother, a member of the Army National Guard, told me as
> > he
> > prepared to serve in Iraq this year:
> >
> > The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is who controls
> > the
> > armed forces. Civilian command of the Army is a cornerstone of our
> > democratic system.
> >
> > My brother told me that he takes his oath to defend the Constitution
> > seriously and that he will fight and die if necessary to honor his
> > commitment. When I asked him if he would be offended if I participated
> > in
> > activities opposing the war, he replied that it was not only my right
> > but
> > my
> > obligation, and the obligation of all civilians opposing this war, to
> > try
> > to
> > change bad policy. "Give us good wars to fight," he said.
> >
> > While acknowledging that another possible moral option is to refuse to
> > participate in a bad war, my brother chooses to place his oath to the
> > Constitution and his belief in our democratic system at the pinnacle of
> > his
> > moral convictions. That some of us might differ with him is basically
> > irrelevant - we (most of us) are not faced with his decision.
> >
> > For the record, he believes that the war on terrorism is necessary to
> deal
> > with real threats facing the United States. He is not convinced of what
> > Iraq
> > has to do with the matter, which puts him fairly well in the mainstream
> of
> > American opinion.
> >
> > So it is terribly upsetting to me to hear that some people despair that
> > there is "no point" to their soldier's death or wounding in the Iraq
> > war.
> > America does not have to be right in order for our soldiers' service to
> > have
> > meaning.
> >
> > What I find offensive is the idea that we have to "follow through" in
> > order
> > to give their deaths meaning post hoc. It is dreadfully apparent from
> > the
> > Iraq Study Group report that Iraq isn't going to have a democracy in any
> > meaningful time frame. Even if this administration does everything
> > perfectly, the best-case scenario is that we might maintain the barest
> > outlines of order.
> >
> > Victory being out of the question at this point, the only democracy my
> > brother is fighting for in Iraq is our democracy. The only constitution
> he
> > is in Iraq fighting to defend is our Constitution. If my brother dies,
> > it
> > will not be for a mistake but rather because of his deeply held belief
> > that
> > the time it takes us as a people to figure out through democratic
> > processes
> > that we are wrong is more important than his own life.
> >
> > This places upon us an obligation. My brother and other service members
> > living and dead have given us the sacred responsibility to use the
> > democratic means we have at hand to bring judgment to bear on whether
> > any
> > given war is worth our soldiers' lives.
> >
> > Despite the clear results in last month's elections and the grim
> > conclusions
> > of the Iraq Study Group, we are still hearing intransigent rhetoric and
> > seeing unrealistic posturing from some of our leaders. This is
> > unacceptable.
> >
> > It's not too late for us to honor the almost 3,000 U.S. service members
> > who
> > have died defending the principles of our democracy.
> >
> > It is morally imperative for us to honor our living service members and
> to
> > do what is demanded of us by our democracy and by common decency. We
> > have
> > taken a small step by changing some of our leadership in Washington, but
> > now
> > it is incumbent upon us to follow through at home and demand
> > accountability
> > from our leaders.
> >
> > What are you, fellow citizens, willing to do to defend our Constitution?
> > Will you dignify the sacrifices of our soldiers? Will you honor my
> > brother's
> > faith in our system? Will you let my brother or others die to eke out a
> > slightly smaller disaster in Iraq? These are the questions we face in
> > the
> > wake of the Baker-Hamilton report.
> >
> > My brother is betting his life that you are not going to ask this of
> > him.
> > He
> > has placed his trust in the idea that we will not ask him to die for
> > anything less than the necessary defense of our democracy. Reasonable
> > people
> > may have at one time disagreed about the necessity of the Iraq war, but
> > now
> > that it has become abundantly clear from every quarter that we cannot
> win,
> > will you be responsible for asking my brother to stay?
> >
> > My family begs of you: Do not ask this of him. Do not ask this of us. My
> > brother is doing his constitutional duty. Now it is time for us to do
> > ours.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> > ***************************************************
> >
> > "Seldom, if ever, has a war ended leaving the victors with such a sense
> of
> > uncertainty and fear -- with such a realization that the future is
> obscure
> > and that survival is not assured."
> >
> > - Edward R. Murrow
> >
> > ***************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger!
> Get it now
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>
>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list