[Vision2020] Tom petulantly refuses to be fair.

Tue Dec 26 21:39:47 PST 2006

Tom, I am disappointed but not surprised that you would choose to continue 
to disseminate an invalid comparison, a comparison you have failed to 
demonstrate is fair and legitimate.  To simply fail to address another's 
reasonable question and then insist, not unlike a spoiled child, that you 
will continue to mislead, is not the act of a fair-minded individual.  Yes, 
you are free to continue in your ongoing attempt to mislead the less 
discerning, as those who value accuracy and reason are free to continue to 
challenge you on it.

Do have a pleasant New Year.             -T
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "'Tony'" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Human Toll

> Tonytime stated -
>
> "To suggest that because something may have been unadvisable at one time
> does not necessarily mean it would continue to be inadvisable 15 years
> later."
>
> The primary reason that I post Vice President Cheney's words (linked to 
> the
> actual audio recording) from 1991 is primarily to reflect just how 
> prophetic
> those words were (and continue to be).
>
> In 1991, when President Bush's daddy (during the Iraqi War, Part 1) had
> halted General Schwarzkopf from advancing on Baghdad, Cheney made that
> statement.
>
> Here it is 2006 (15 years later), three years after "Mission 
> Accomplished",
> attempting to establish Iraq's third government administration subsequent 
> to
> the Iraqi "election" in the midst of a civil war.
>
> I will continue to post Cheney's words (and audio link) along with the
> weekly Human Toll as both reflect our current administration's lethal
> failings.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> ********************************************
>
> "In America, anybody can become president.
> That's one of the risks you take . . ."
>
> - Adlai Stevenson
>
> ********************************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony [mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:30 PM
> To: Tom Hansen
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Human Toll
>
> Tom you repeatedly post Dick Cheney's statement regarding Iraq made at the
> time of our liberation of Kuwait without the all important context.  To
> suggest that because something may have been unadvisable at one time  does
> not necessarily mean it would continue to be inadvisable 15 years later.
> Circumstances and situations change Tom.  Our relationships with other 
> world
>
> leaders are not cast in concrete, but change with geopolitical
> circumstances.  You surely realize this, so why the attempt to equate
> Cheney's statement regarding Iraq in '91 with our invasion of '05?
>
> Please try to employ a modicum of fairness in your observations for the
> benefit of the less informed who might place undue stock in illogical
> suggestions.
>
> Have a pleasant New Year.          -T
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 1:53 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] The Human Toll
>
>
>> "The notion that we ought to now go to Baghdad and somehow take control 
>> of
>> the country strikes me as an extremely serious one in terms of what we'd
>> have to do once we got there. You'd probably have to put some new
>> government
>> in place. It's not clear what kind of government that would be, how long
>> you'd have to stay. For the U.S. to get involved militarily in 
>> determining
>> the outcome of the struggle over who's going to govern in Iraq strikes me
>> as
>> a classic definition of a quagmire."
>>
>> - Dick Cheney, 1991
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Stuff/Cheney_Quagmire.mp3
>>
>> ------
>>
>>>From the January 1, 2007 edition of the Army Times -
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> U.S. service members who died while supporting combat operations in Iraq,
>> confirmed by the Defense Department from December 15 through December 21:
>>
>> Army Pfc. Joe L. Baines, 19, of Newark, New Jersey; assigned to the 1st
>> Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort
>> Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Marine Lance Cpl. Ryan J. Burgess, 21, of Sanford, Michigan; assigned to
>> 3rd
>> Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine
>> Expeditionary
>> Force, Twentynine Palms, California.
>>
>> Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew W. Clark, 22, of St. Louis, Missouri; assigned
>> to
>> 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, 3rd Marine Division, III Marine
>> Expeditionary Force, Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.
>>
>> Army Spc. Andrew P. Daul, 21, of Brighton, Michigan; assigned to the 1st
>> Battalion, 37th Armored Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division,
>> Friedberg, Germany.
>>
>> Army Spc. Scott D. Dykman, 27, of Helena, Montana; assigned to the 1st
>> Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team
>> (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska.
>>
>> Army Staff Sgt. Henry K. Kahalewai, 43, of Hilo, Hawaii; assigned to the
>> 1st
>> Squadron, 14th Cavalry Regiment, 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division
>> (Stryker
>> Brigade Combat Team), Fort Lewis, Washington.
>>
>> Marine Lance Cpl. Ryan L. Mayhan, 25, of Hawthorne, California; assigned
>> to
>> 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine
>> Expeditionary Force, Twentynine Palms, California.
>>
>> Army Staff Sgt. Jacob G. McMillan, 25, of Lafayette, Louisiana; assigned
>> to
>> the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat
>> Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska.
>>
>> Army Staff Sgt. Brian L. Mintzlaff, 34, of Fort Worth, Texas; assigned to
>> the 2nd Battalion, 8th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry
>> Division,
>> Fort Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Navy Hospitalman Kyle A. Nolen, 21, of Ennis, Texas; assigned to H
>> Company,
>> 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Division, Regimental Combat Team 7, I Marine
>> Expeditionary Force Forward, 29 Palms, Calif.
>>
>> Marine Cpl. Joshua D. Pickard, 20, of Merced, California; assigned to 2nd
>> Assault Amphibian Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary
>> Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.
>>
>> Army Staff Sgt. David R. Staats, 30, of Pueblo, Colorado; assigned to the
>> 1st Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division,
>> Fort
>> Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Army Spc. Matthew J. Stanley, 22, of Wolfeboro Falls, New Hampshire;
>> assigned to the 1st Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st
>> Cavalry
>> Division, Fort Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Army Pfc. Seth M. Stanton, 19, of Colorado Springs, Colorado; assigned to
>> the 1st Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry 
>> Division,
>> Fort Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Marine Lance Cpl. Fernando S. Tamayo, 19, of Fontana, California; 
>> assigned
>> to the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine
>> Expeditionary Force, Twentynine Palms, California.
>>
>> Army Spc. Robert J. Volker, 21, of Big Spring, Texas; assigned to the 1st
>> Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort
>> Hood, Texas.
>>
>> Marine Lance Cpl. Luke C. Yepsen, 20, of Kingwood, Texas; assigned to 1st
>> Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force,
>> Twentynine Palms, California.
>>
>>
>> December 15 - December 21
>> Killed: 17; wounded in action: 172
>>
>>
>> March 19, 2003 - December 21, 2006
>> Killed: 2,962; wounded in action: 22,401
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> And the beat goes on . . .
>>
>> "Bring 'em Home"
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Songs/Bring_em_home.mp3
>>
>> "If you love this land of the free
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> Bring them back from overseas
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> It will make the politicians sad, I know
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> They wanna tangle with their foe
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> They wanna test their grand theories
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> With the blood of you and me
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> Now we'll give no more brave young lives
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> For the gleam in someone's eyes
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> The men will cheer and the boys will shout
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> Yeah and we will all turn out
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> The church bells will ring with joy
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> To welcome our darlin' girls and boys
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>>
>> We will lift their voice and sound
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
>> Yeah, when Johnny comes marching home
>> Bring 'em home, bring 'em home."
>>
>> Pro patria,
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Vandalville, Idaho
>>
>> "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the
>> tranquil
>> and steady dedication of a lifetime."
>>
>> -- Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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