[Vision2020] A Polite Request

[lfalen]

Saundra
You make some good points, but you seam to continually misread me  I have never condoned Tony's outbursts and have repeatedly said so.  I don't like it in others either regardless of their political persuasion I do not condone racial slurs by anyone.
I am not sure what christmas salutation you approve of, so I'll just say I hope the holidays treat you well.

Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Saundra Lund" sslund at roadrunner.com
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:23:06 -0800
To: "'Chasuk'" chasuk at gmail.com,  "'Vision2020'" vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Polite Request

> Hi Chas & All Visionaries,
> 
> I appreciate the request . . . and the sentiment behind it.  Really, I do!
> 
> However, while I appreciate the sentiment, it troubles me at the same time.
> Having been around the Viz block a time or two or three or four, it seems
> like someone always expresses a similar sentiment around this time of year.
> And, my perception is that is has little effect:  those who try to play
> nicely most of the time will continue to do so . . . and to apologize when
> they cross a line, and those who have no interest in harmony and
> consideration and diversity and mutual respect will continue on their chosen
> paths.
> 
> You -- or whoever -- gets to feel good for making such a reasonable request,
> but the effect is minimal for a community atmosphere here, I'm sorry to say.
> 
> So, go ahead, folks, and take your shots at me for being a Scrooge or a
> Realist or a Pessimist or whatever.  Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me
> twice, shame on *me.*  Been there, done that . . . and I've seen time and
> again that such a request relies on the good will of *all,* and the sad fact
> is that some here don't have that good will.  Period.
> 
> Quite frankly, it also troubles me, Chas, that with your itemized list, you
> targeted only one aspect of a complete picture.  It's kind of the same
> problem I had with Roger Falen's post:  had he spoken out against Tony's
> racism or sexual harassment or sweeping generalizations targeted towards
> individuals or even *one* of the personal attacks by reactionaries against
> liberals that would have been one thing, but when he chose to speak out --
> publicly -- against someone who has been specifically targeted while
> remaining mute against the multitude of other transgressions, that speaks
> volumes in my book.
> 
> I've read your subsequent post, and I understand your point, but some of us
> here have been trying to show love for a long time.  And, when your itemized
> list targets *only* one side, it's hurtful and dismissive and disrespectful
> to *all* the other sides as well, you know?  The outing of personal
> information, the targeting of family members, the stalking, the
> name-calling, the threatening of economic livelihood, the public & private
> sexual harassment, the *true* intolerance (vs the trite "Intolerista"), the
> outright refusal of some to address others with *basic* respect when
> repeatedly requested (Mr. Gier vs Dr. Gier, Mrs. Lund vs Ms. Lund, Mary vs
> Joan, etc.) . . . well, it's dismissive and hurtful . . . and unfair.  And
> we do NO ONE any favors when turning a blind eye to *all* sides of a dispute
> . . . 
> 
> I suppose one could interpret it in a positive manner:  you have higher
> expectations from some than you do of others.  Fair enough on the surface .
> . . but it's also a double standard, so it's *not* fair enough.
> 
> One of my holiday wishes (in addition to world peace and the end of hunger &
> inadequate medical care and intolerance and bigotry and racism and sexism
> and child abuse and elder abuse and animal abuse and corruption and
> religious intolerance and . . .and . . . and . . . and . . . ) is that your
> polite request will have an effect on those who need it.
> 
> But, I also hope that it won't have a silencing effect on those who have
> been mistreated and misrepresented on V2020!  I hope people will support
> their opinions with facts rather than simply parroting any "party line."
> When challenged, I hope they will respond with rationality and substance
> rather than emotion and personal attacks.
> 
> And, I hope that we can send each other ***genuine*** holiday wishes rather
> than trying to fit all into our own narrow little boxes.  That includes the
> disrespectful of diversity capitalization of "CHRISTmas"!  Or, do you just
> want to ignore that???
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays,
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
> 
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
> 
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Chasuk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:37 PM
> To: Vision2020
> Subject: [Vision2020] A Polite Request
> 
> Could we please stop with the Hairless, Comb-over, HeirDoug, Dougie-boy,
> etc?  It really is quite juvenile, and is truthfully embarrassing when it
> comes from the pens/mouths/keyboards of anyone over 12 years of age.  Worse,
> it negates any valid argument that they may have existed.
> 
> It's soon Christmas, and after that, New Years.  Could we all agree to a New
> Year's resolution to act like grown-ups?  I know, it's fun to let our inner
> child out once in a while, but when we allow ourselves this freedom too
> often it grows tiresome, and when it comes from someone with who I am
> otherwise in sympathy, I am doubly dismayed because it manages with one
> thoughtless word to discredit "our side."
> 
> Can we try, pretty please?
> 
> Chas
> 
> --
> "Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause." -- Mahatma Gandhi
> 
> 
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