[Vision2020] Pat nails it on Iraq

[debismith at moscow.com]

Given that Roger took me to task for a somewhat old e-mail, I think he may not have been 
reading everything that comes through. Since I have bozo filtered several posters, i certainly 
cannot fault him for that. 

However, being personally attacked in several sexually explicit e-mails gives me some right to 
smack down the attacker. Being lumped into groups which I may or may not fit, and vilified as 
un-American, and being the recipient of off-list nastygrams (and not responding publically), 
certainly taints my responses to ToeKnee and his ilk. ToeKnee may be trying to be more civil--
he is failing in his attempt. He utilizes the most inflammatory language possible, levels attacks 
at individuals and groups, and then cries victim of the left when anyone responds negatively. 
And we still don't know why a Valley Dweller is so interested in Moscow. Has he conquered 
the 30 or so liberals there and is looking for new territory? Has he been thrown out of the far-
right camp for being around the bend and needs to feel needed? We know way more than we 
want to about his very personal life, but this tidbit still eludes us....

I agree with Saundra that you get back what you put into the forum. Saundra has had an 
amazing amount of crap thrown at her, and continues to behave well.  I have not always 
behaved well---not an apology and don't hold your breath.. I fully expect some flack when I am 
outspoken, or when I make personal reference to another person. I often do not post the 
response that comes to mind, and sometimes I wish I hadn't hit the send button. But the 
vicious, vitriolic, twisted stuff that comes from some posters requires a response. Sometimes, 
that response needs to be worded in the same tone as used by the originator of the topic. 
JMHO but it's mine and I'm sticking to it.

I appreciate the holiday spirit sentiment, but this is not a forum that takes a holiday--in fact, 
this forum doesn't take prisoners! I enjoy the discussions we have on the V, I even enjoy the 
flame wars here, and my advice is bozo filter those with whom you have a problem  (including 
me), and stop believing you can moderate the likes of ToeKnee (or me) with platitudes or 
rebukes.  By the way, a rebuke from Roger for behaving badly doesn't carry a buncha weight 
with me, given his own poorly excused record. OOOPS. Did it again.....

Debi R-S



From:           	"Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
To:             	"'lfalen'" <lfalen at turbonet.com>, <debismith at moscow.com>,
       	<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject:        	RE: [Vision2020] Pat nails it on Iraq
Date sent:      	Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:11:33 -0800

Roger Falen wrote:
"Tony has been tring yo be more civil ( with some relapses)."

What fairyland are you living in?!?!?  Truly, Roger -- you've always
impressed me as in intelligent man.  Surely you've not fallen for
Tony's latest tactic of cushioning his insults of and attacks on
individuals and groups between empty, insincere, and sarcastic
platitudes?!?!

Besides, didn't your family or your church or your school or your
friends ever teach you that you get back what you put out in this
worlds?  Sometimes that accountability happens on Judgment Day, and
sometimes it additionally happens here & now.  That some people are
sick & tired of being attacked and maligned by Tony and others is
perfectly understandable.  Indeed, one might think those responding to
his nonsense are performing a community service :-)  It is feedback
from our peers that helps us learn what is socially acceptable and
what isn't, and as long as people try, there's always the *hope* that
something might penetrate that thick little skull of Tony's. I'm not
holding my breath, but . . . 

Roger also wrote:
"Tony should be entitled to his opinion . . . "

Everyone IS entitled to their opinions, Roger, and it's rather
disingenuous of you to imply otherwise.  However, with the expression
of opinion comes accountability.  If Tony or others consistently
choose to express that opinion in the hateful, insulting, and/or
attacking manner that's become their V2020 signatures, then none of us
should be surprised when they get back what they put out.  Lord knows
that Tony & others have proven time & again that facts and reason mean
nothing to them . . . 

Roger also wrote:
". . . do you think it is ok for those on the left to demean people
with right wing view. Lets apply the same standards to every one."

Why, Roger?  You *certainly* didn't apply the same standards to
everyone.

I'm incredibly disappointed that when someone who has been
***directly*** attacked and harassed responds, you take her to task. 
Yet you've ignored Tony's repeated sexual harassment of V2020
participants, you've ignored his racism, and you've remained silent
about his ugly and vicious attacks on liberals, local and otherwise.

I'm disappointed, and I fear what you've chosen to remain silent about
is just as telling as what you've chosen to speak out against in this
instance.


JMHO,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
do nothing. - Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision
2020 forum without the express written permission of the author.*****




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