[Vision2020] Your Baptism "i Faderens og Sønnens og den Helligaands Navn"

Fri Dec 8 07:05:42 PST 2006

Tom-Tom,

I don't even know Danish and I was able to figure it out. Check the 
context and then exchange the capitalized "F", "S" and "H" and see if 
you can too! If that fails ask Ralph. He is the one that wrote it. I 
think Danish is such a pretty language to call it "Pig Latin" is most 
distasteful.

Doug

(Tommie Boy, I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with Father, Son and Holy 
Spirit! And you call me Clueless.)

-----Original Message-----
From: thansen at moscow.com
To: nielsen at uidaho.edu; Vision2020 at moscow.com
Cc: heirdoug at netscape.net
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Your Baptism "i Faderens og Sønnens og den 
Helligaands Navn"

No-Clue -

Care to translate "i Faderens og Sønnens og den Helligaands Navn" into
Anselm House's very own dialect of Pig Latin?

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

******************************************

"People walking up to you
Singing glory hallelujah
And they're trying to sock it to you
In the name of the Lord."

- Joe South (from "Games People Play")

******************************************

-----Original Message-----

 From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Ralph Nielsen
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:13 PM
To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Cc: Doug Farris
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Your Baptism "i Faderens og Sønnens og den
Helligaands Navn"

Doug,

I have no idea what God thinks about my baptism, Doug. That's his
problem. I do know that infant baptism to a trinitarian formula has
absolutely no scriptural basis whatsoever. And you can't find any
either.

But many of us would appreciate your trying to find scriptural bases
for the following:

- What about the alleged genealogies of Joseph in Matthew and Luke?
Is either one of them true?
- How many people died and went to heaven in the Old Testament?
- Why is there no eternal life for Adam and Eve and their descendants?
- According to God, what happens to us when we die?
- How many books are supposed to be in the Bible? And who says so?
God or mortals?

Have a nice night. Or "God nat, sov godt" as we say in Danish.

Ralph

On Dec 7, 2006, at 5:57 PM, heirdoug at netscape.net wrote:

> Ralph and Nick,
>
> You are so good to try and point everything back to scripture, can
> you show me from scripture where Baptism "i Faderens og Sønnens og
> den Helligaands Navn" can ware [sic] off or has no effect? It
> doesn't matter what you think your Baptism means, what does God
> think about your Baptism?
>
> Doug
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nielsen at uidaho.edu
> Cc: heirdoug at netscape.net
> Sent: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 5:31 PM
> Subject: Heirdoug's hero
>
> heirdoug at netscape.net
> Thu Dec 7 12:06:01 PST 2006
>
> DOUG
> Yes, I do claim that the genealogy in Matthew is the Word of God
> and is
> true. I also claim that the genealogy in Luke is also the Word of God
> and is true. To believe that any part of God's Word to be false is to
> blaspheme the living God, something that you and your so called
> "honest
> scholars" have come to a consensus on.
>
> RALPH
> I have a feeling that Doug is hiding something here. Both
> genealogies, in Matthew and Luke, are of Jesus via Joseph. But they
> can't both be true, so fundies play the dishonest game of
> pretending that the one in Luke is of Mary, not Joseph. But some
> other fundies make believe that the one in Matthew is of Mary and
> the one in Luke is of Joseph. Is someone blaspheming the living God?
>
> DOUG
> I don't agree with you that neither David nor his baby went to heaven.
> To quote David, "Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he
> will not return to me." David went to his resurrection and as an Old
> Testament saint, is in the presence of the Lord. David said "I will go
> to him" that would mean that the baby went to his resurrection and is
> in the presence of the Lord as well. Ralph, you are starting to sound
> like a Sadducee.
>
> RALPH
> Doug can't show us a single person in the entire Hebrew Bible (OT)
> who died and went to heaven. The conservative Sadducees were
> correct in this matter.
>
> DOUG
> Vicarious punishment is perfectly moral in these Bible days as
> well. We
> have never left the Bible days. The judgments and blessings of God do
> not change for God is unchangeable.
>
> RALPH
> We'll see how far you can carry the argument that the God of the
> Bible is unchangeable. In the beginning of biblical human history
> Yahweh God told Adam and Eve, "By the sweat of your face you shall
> eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were
> taken; you are dust, and to dust you will return" (Genesis 3:19).
> And to make sure that Adam and Eve would not be able to return to
> the garden of Eden, eat of the tree of life, and live forever like
> God, he drove them out of the garden and placed cherubim to guard
> the way to the tree of life (Genesis 3:22-24).
>
> DOUG
> The sins that you commit could be
> the judgment God is placing upon your Grand parents. Not having a name
> or posterity to carry it on is also God’s judgment.
>
> RALPH
> Now Doug is twisting the word of God. It could be that I am paying
> God's penalty for something my great-grandparents did, but nowhere
> in the Bible have I read that sins that I might commit are the
> penalty for what they did. For a summary of how God runs his world
> read Deuteronomy 28. Nowhere does God promise any kind of life
> after death, either for reward in a heaven or punishment in a hell.
> As the Preacher wrote in the word of God, "The living know that
> they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward,
> and even the memory of them is lost" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
>
> DOUG
> Ralph you amaze me. You choose to speak the truth in the midst of your
> lies. When God arranged, at the beginning of time, to have his only
> begotten son crucified, in the fullness of time, He was only thinking
> of you. It was for your sins that Jesus was born. It was for your sins
> that He lived a sinless life. It was for your sins that He died and
> was
> buried. And it was for your justification that He was raised from the
> dead on the third day.
>
> RALPH
> It would be nice if Doug would tell us what lies I have told. I am
> curious to know. As for vicarious punishment, we read, "But he
> [David] did not put to death the children of the murderers;
> according to what is written in the book of the law of Moses, where
> the LORD commanded, 'The parents shall not be put to death for the
> children, or the children be put to death for the parents; but all
> shall be put to death for their own sins'" (2 Kings 14:6). (That
> was a long verse, Doug.)
>
> DOUG
> I am curious about one thing. Were you baptized in the name of the
> Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as a child like Nick Gier was?
>
> RALPH
> Yes, I was baptized into the Church of Denmark, like Nick's
> daughter, "i Faderens og Sønnens og den Helligaands Navn." But it
> wore off.
>
>
> From: nielsen at uidaho.edu
> To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Sent: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:46 AM
> Subject: Heirdoug's hero
>
> If Doug's claim that the genealogy in Matthew is historically true,
> then the one in Luke is false. Of course, it is possible that both are
> false, as honest Christian scholars agree.
>
> I am at a loss to understand what Doug means when he claims that I
> "typically" quote Bible verses incompletely. Since the division of the
> Bible into chapters and verses is quite arbitrary--they do not appear
> in the MSS--it is not always necessary to quote verses in full.
> Since I
> was discussing David, not Jesus, my omission was perfectly legitimate.
>
> I take it that Doug agrees with me that neither David nor his baby boy
> went to heaven when they died.
>
> Vicarious punishment was considered perfectly moral in Bible days.
> That
> is why the LORD killed David's baby boy for his father's sins. And
> that
> is why, according to the Christian religion, God arranged to have his
> own son tortured and killed for the sins of others.
>
> As for which or how many books belong in the Bible and thus constitute
> the "Word of God," here again the decision is quite arbitrary. To this
> day Christians and Jews cannot agree on this matter. So far be it from
> me to argue about it.
>
> Ralph
> =
> 
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