[Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart

Thu Aug 31 07:48:02 PDT 2006

I see the insults but I can't any argument, Gary!

Not sure what to say since it is clear that you didn't carefully read my post. You made a general claim about Wal-Mart and I refuted it with a hypothetical example. As it turns out, the example is not entirely hypothetical since the comparison between Cosco and Wal-Mart is real. Your comments below seem to miss these points entirely. 

Sorry for engaging in abstract, logical reasoning! Next time I'll use pictures.

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote: 

=============
My goodness, why argue using half measures? I'm surprised that you didn't 
take your supposition to its inevitable ridiculous conclusion. Costco comes 
to town and pays its lowliest hot dog vendor $16.00 per hour to start. All 
is sunshine and lollypops. Wal-Mart arrives and, in the throws of corporate 
greed, not only doesn't pay its employees a living wage, it charges them for 
the privilege of working  for a company as vicious and mean as them. Using 
this business model WM drives Costco and all Mom & Pop stores into 
receivership and eventually brings about the end of the world. This would 
have been the ultimate in proof that WM is a cross between a Cambodian 
re-education camp and hell.

I find this technique for arguing against Wal-Mart to be puzzling. Pit them 
against a hypothetical paragon of virtue that isn't even a player in the 
local game, accuse them of indignities and atrocities that they do not 
engage in, blend well and present the results as though you had just read 
them out of a year end stock holders report. It succeeds in presenting WM as 
evil, I guess,  but it has no basis in reality. The one thing that you 
continually leave out of the worker/wage equation is the fact that the 
employees always have at least two choices when it comes to working for the 
dreaded corporate monster. There is no such thing as "no other work option." 
Unless, that is, we want to dive back into your "for the sake of argument 
fantasy world."

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen" 
<thansen at moscow.com>; "Joan Opyr" <joanopyr at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart

> Gary,
>
> Notice that your story turns out exactly the same regardless of how much 
> money Wal-Mart pays its employees. Eventually it does translate into a bad 
> thing. Let me try to illustrate the point.
>
> Suppose Costco pays its employees a minimum of $10 an hour and Wal-Mart 
> pays its employees a minimum of $9, in an effort to keep competitive. 
> Sounds like a win-win situation here. Suppose instead Wal-Mart pays its 
> employees $8. This doesn't sound so bad either and it represents your 
> second option: Wal-Mart employs "the lesser skilled members of the 
> workforce that Costco rejected." Still a win-win situation.
>
> But once we notice that Wal-Mart is selecting folks who have no other work 
> option we realize that they have no motivation at all to stop at $8. Why 
> not go to $6, or $4, or $2, or $1? In an entirely "free market," there is 
> no incentive for Wal-Mart to stop at any particular point. For any dollar 
> amount that it might stop, your point still holds: they are employing 
> "lesser skilled members of the workforce" who can't get a job anywhere 
> else. Hey, $1 is better than nothing, right?
>
> Thankfully the market is not entirely free and there are minimum wage 
> laws. In Idaho the minimum wage is $5.15 an hour, so Wal-Mart is prevented 
> by law from going any lower than that. At this point the numbers start to 
> matter, so here is an interesting quote from the web (I can't recall the 
> website but you can google to quote to find out if you'd like):
>
> "Costco wouldn't have to raise salaries with Kerry's proposal to increase 
> the minimum wage to $7 an hour, from $5.15 now. It already pays hot-dog 
> vendors as much as $16 an hour, and the lowest wage it pays is $10 an 
> hour."
>
> The difference between $10 and $5.15 per hour is significant. If these 
> workers are doing more or less the same work, then it seems as if Wal-Mart 
> is not paying its fair share. Until the minimum wage is raised to correct 
> the problem I think it is wise to discourage companies that are motivated 
> purely by profit considerations from locating in our fine state.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> =============
> Why don't we all impose an enormous strain on our imaginations and presume
> that everything Mr. Reed presented in his letter is correct. I'll give you
> all a moment to bring that imposing struggle under control. Now the 
> question
> that needs to be asked is so what? The fact of the matter is that Wal-Mart
> has expressed a desire to build in the area and Costco hasn't. Now lets 
> say
> that Costco was interested in expanding into the Moscow/Pullman area and
> that they did indeed provide a workplace that was twice as wonderful as
> Wal-Mart. Since the management of WM can't round up employees at gun point
> it would seem that they would have to be competitive to attract warm 
> bodies
> or, they would employ the lesser skilled members of the workforce that
> Costco rejected. Either way there would be greater employment 
> opportunities
> in the area, not to mention increased economic vitality. How, exactly does
> that translate into a bad thing?
>
> Perplexed,
> gc
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: "Joan Opyr" <joanopyr at moscow.com>; "'Moscow Vision 2020'"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:23 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart
>
>
>> >From today's (August 29, 2006) Moscow-Pullman Daily News with a special
>> thanks to T.V. Reed of Pullman.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Costco preferred over Wal-Mart
>>
>> Two of the handful of fanatical Wal-Mart advocates in town have recently
>> written that Costco would never come to Pullman because our per capita
>> income is lower than places like Clarkston where the store has located.
>> But
>> anyone with basic economic understanding knows the per capita income for
>> Pullman (and Moscow) is skewed downward by the presence of so many
>> students
>> whose actual spending power, thanks to parents, is far beyond what income
>> would indicate.
>>
>> The median income for folks 25 and over in Pullman is $50,416. That 
>> figure
>> represents more than 9,000 people - more than the entire population of
>> Clarkston with its per capita income of $29,100. There is no reason why
>> Costco and many other stores won't find this area attractive. Attempts to
>> convince us that only Wal-Mart would be interested in Pullman are
>> misleading
>> and denigrate our considerable attractiveness as a community.
>>
>> What Costco has proven definitively is that Wal-Mart's elitist model of
>> low
>> wages, meager, expensive benefits, and vicious anti-union activity is not
>> necessary to big-box success. One local Wal-Mart booster traveled to
>> Arkansas to get the "facts" about the corporation, and was apparently
>> wowed
>> to talk to big boss Lee Scott himself who told him what a wonderful
>> company
>> he runs.
>>
>> As any competent journalist or researcher for government, business or
>> academia knows, you never take at face value the self-reporting of the
>> research subject. Digging for the facts beneath Wal-Mart's claims and
>> comparing them to rival Costco reveals a clear, objective contrast. 
>> Costco
>> has twice as many employees enjoying health benefits, and the company 
>> pays
>> for 90 percent of those benefits as opposed to 60 percent for Wal-Mart.
>> Starting salaries at Costco average $3-$6 per hour higher than at
>> Wal-Mart.
>> Not surprisingly, Wal-Mart has twice the employee turnover rate of 
>> Costco.
>>
>> These differences belie Wal-Mart's claims, and prove their elitist model,
>> where wealth supposedly trickles down from the Waltons (five of America's
>> 10
>> richest individuals), can be replaced by one where workers are paid 
>> fairly
>> and let their money trickle up into the economy.
>>
>> T.V. Reed, Pullman
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "If I wanted to overhear every tedious scrap of brain static rattling
>> around
>> in your head, I'd read your blog."
>>
>> - Bill Maher
>>
>>
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>
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