[Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore Gras"Killing Babies!

[J Ford]

Like argueing with Jell-O - a lot of jiggle but no substance.



J  :]





>From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>To: heirdoug at netscape.net
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore 
>Gras"Killing Babies!
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:50:38 -0700
>
>Dear Doug,
>
>This is my last reply to you, since you don't even read what I'm writing. 
>Instead of responding to my arguments you keep responding to the views of 
>Mr. Idiot-Liberal. Maybe his views are "toxic" but if you actually took the 
>time to try to figure out my views you'd see that they are not.
>
>1. Abortion is a bad thing and should be avoided. Likewise with eating foie 
>gras. But the law is not the right vehicle for creating a moral society. 
>Just because X is immoral it doesn't automatically follow that X should be 
>illegal.
>
>2. The law is a great vehicle for protecting people from harm. The law 
>should only be concerned with cases of clear harms to clear persons (rape, 
>etc.).
>
>3. Several days is less than 15-18 days, so you still have not said 
>anything to suggest that abortion is worse than foie gras preparation. This 
>is a relative claim, though. I agree that both are bad. (See no. 1 above.)
>
>I have to get back to my day job!
>
>Best, Joe
>
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- heirdoug at netscape.net wrote:
>
>=============
>Yes Joe, I did read it carefully.
>
>After the poor woman is given the death drug it can take several days
>for the baby to be killed. All the while the mother is in great pain
>  from cramps and bleeding and the baby thrashing around in side of her.
>Then when she goes and gets the next death drug it can take several
>hours or days to deliver a dead baby. The follow up visit of Step 3 is
>to make sure that the mother is still alive and no infection has onset
>in her womb. This only serves to reduce the liability of the clinic in
>a law suit.
>
>You may not have used the term of compassion for the woman but many
>others who promote abortion use it. Now you say that you do not promote
>abortion but your desire to remain philosophical is just as toxic as
>the misoprostol.
>
>Do you think that the above time line if very compassionate? Do you
>know that there are instances of that time line extending out for
>several weeks? Did you know that some of those babies that have been
>attacked by the 'clinician' survived and are now alive to tell the
>story?
>
>I think it's good that you believe abortion is a bad thing but what is
>so good about separating the 'philosophy of law' from moral theory? You
>say that folks need to be left alone to make their own personal
>decisions with out the interference of the government. Do you think
>that a rapist has that same right about his 'own personal decision'? Do
>you think that the government should leave him alone with his victim to
>do what his conscience dictates? Maybe you could share your philosophy
>with the victim. I'm sure she would like to have a say in this
>philosophical discussion.
>
>The same goes for the helpless baby dying in side of the mother. Will
>he like your 'philosophy of law' devoid of all moral theory? Or would
>he like it if you steped in, help pay for the ultrasound and give his
>mother some real facts about life!
>
>As to your claim that coat hangers were the instument of choice.
>Chances are none were ever used!
>
>As to your belief that I take joy in passing insults upon sodomites in
>public, I don't. I have no joy in the destruction of a soul.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: joekc at adelphia.net
>To: heirdoug at netscape.net
>Cc: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Sent: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 9:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore
>Gras"Killing Babies!
>
>Did you read this carefully, Doug, before you posted it? There is no
>information
>here suggesting that abortion takes 15-18 days, like the torture
>necessary for
>foie gras.
>
>For instance, you say that there are three steps to the one particular
>procedure
>you note below but in Step 2 it says "This is the abortion." Step 3 is
>listed as
>a "follow-up visit."
>
>In any event, you're missing the point. I don't don't need you to tell
>me that
>abortion is a bad thing, for I already believe that it is. Our
>disagreement has
>more to do with issues in philosophy of law than moral theory.
>
>You write: "I love that argument about having compassion for the
>woman." I have
>no idea what argument you're talking about here but it wasn't mine. My
>reasons
>for not restricting abortion any more than it already is has nothing to
>do with
>compassion for women. Rather it has to do with respect for people to
>make their
>own personal decisions about these matters instead of the government.
>I've talked
>about this. What is your response?
>
>I don't want to read the website for Care Net of the Palouse. I feel
>confident
>that some of that money is going to go toward shifting the burden of
>our
>personal moral choices from the individual to the government. I think I
>spelled
>out pretty clearly why I think that this is not the right thing to do.
>What is
>your response to those arguments?
>
>Yes, I did know the below fact about the pill. Did you know that, back
>when
>abortion and the pill were illegal, women used coat hangers to do the
>job?
>
>Lastly, I wonder why you take so much joy in insulting gays and
>lesbians in
>public. Do you think that this is somehow going to win them over to
>your side?
>What, really, is your goal in being continually offensive in this way?
>(Here I'm
>referring to your more detailed replies to Keely -- not just the
>"sodomite"
>reference below.) And, given that you and others are so offensive, why
>does it
>surprise you when others use terms like "Androids" to refer to NSA
>students?
>These are not rhetorical questions. I just don't get it.
>
>Best, Joe
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