[Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore Gras"Killing Babies!

[Saundra Lund]

Visionaries:

I swore I wasn't going to get sucked into any more ridiculous discussions
with Donovan's disingenuous posts, and I'm not.

I will, however, say I'm disappointed in -- but not surprised by --
Donovan's selective quoting.  The very next sentence in the Wikipedia
article Donovan selectively quoted is:
"The committee did not observe any signs that animals appreciated being
force fed, and observed that ducks attempted to move away when their feeder
entered the room."

I'll state the obvious that apparently escapes Donovan:  one doesn't need to
look at blood hormones to know that the ducks & geese used in foie gras
production suffer.  The *simple* physiological evidence is clear:  they
struggle to get away, they vomit, they die in the forced feeding process.
This is something simple observation documents.  The heart and respiration
rates show changes that indicate physiological stress/pain.

And, these individual sentient beings are absolutely needlessly subjected to
*their* pain and suffering and terror over and over and over and over again.

Given the extensive education Donovan claims, it is shocking to me that he's
trying to deny something so obvious as the suffering inherent in the
"production" of foie gras.  I can certainly understand that some people just
don't know what's involved in foie gras production, but it is beyond me what
Donovan hopes to accomplish by minimizing and denying the very real and
repeated suffering clearly experienced by these sentient beings.


Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****



-----Original Message-----
From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:21 PM
To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore
Gras"Killing Babies!

Saundra,


You huffed:


"That is flatly untrue. The only rational response to such nonsense is:
cite your sources, Donovan."


In response to my statement:


"In fact, there is more physiological scientifically conclusive evidence
that a fetus experiencing an abortion feels more pain and stress than that
of a duck being forced fed."

I have done my research to bad you cannot conduct some yourself,



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras
 In regards to forced feeding:


"The EU (European Union) committee carried out several tests designed to
detect pain or distress by looking at blood hormones and all of them were
inconclusive or without any measurable difference to similarly raised
animals."
 
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/anand/
 In regards to pain felt by a fetus:


"Numerous lines of evidence suggest that even in the human fetus, pain
pathways as well as cortical and subcortical centers necessary for pain
perception are well developed late in gestation, and the neurochemical
systems now known to be associated with pain transmission and modulation are
intact and functional. Physiologic responses to painful stimuli have been
well documented in neonates of various gestational ages and are reflected in
hormonal, metabolic, and cardiorespiratory changes similar to but greater
than those observed in adult subjects."


Fetuses feel more pain when their heads pop off during an abortion procedure
than a goose or duck during the time that the animal is being fed. That is
scientifically documented.
 

Best,


_DJA



Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:

	Donovan Arnold wrote:
	"In fact, there is more physiological scientifically conclusive
evidence
	that a fetus experiencing an abortion feels more pain and stress
than that
	of a duck being forced fed."
	
	That is flatly untrue. The only rational response to such nonsense
is:
	cite your sources, Donovan.
	
	
	Saundra Lund
	Moscow, ID
	
	The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
to do
	nothing.
	- Edmund Burke
	
	***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
Lund.
	Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
forum
	without the express written permission of the author.***** 
	
	
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