[Vision2020] West of Paris
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Fri Aug 25 18:12:48 PDT 2006
My anti CC agenda? I've got to tell ya, Joe, I've got absolutely no idea
what you're talking about. You seem to want to make what I've posted into
some continuation of previous disagreements and animosities which I have
less than no interest in revisiting. This isn't about you. Why don't you try
and pick a fight with someone else. I'm not interested.
gc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
I understand that it is difficult for you to respond to me without
automatically falling back into your anti-CC-agenda-speak but all I said was
that "IT APPEARS, AT LEAST, that Mr. Foucachon is talking out of both sides
of his mouth." I don't know Mr. Foucachon at all and I'm willing to give him
the benefit of the doubt, contrary to your prejudicial assumptions about me.
But before I can give him the benefit of the doubt I'll need an explanation
of the following, all taken from this very thread:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:55 AM, Ms. Prusynski posted the following
note on the V: "Mr. Foucachon has decided to take foie gras off the menu and
I would like to congratulate and thank him for making the compassionate
choice. Hopefully his kind actions can be a way to educate people about just
what goes into foie gras production and how cruel it is. Thanks very much,
Mr. Foucachon and West of Paris."
Later that day Ms. Lund posted an article from the Moscow/Pullman Daily News
dated 8/23/06 quoting Mr. Foucachon: "While I believe there are some valid
concerns here, I'm not going to stop serving what people want. I will put
foie gras on my menu again."
Today, Mr. Hayman posted an article from the AP wire printed in the
Spokesman Review dated 8/25/06 quoting Mr. Foucachon: "The people
complaining about foie gras have a point. The way the birds are being
stuffed is questionable, and I do believe it's important to treat animals
humanely. I will put foie gras on my menu again when I find a producer that
doesn't engage in force feeding."
Yet earlier in the same article there is this quote: "Francis Foucachon, who
owns West of Paris, said protests against foie gras – French for fatty
liver – will not stop him from offering it on his menu when he gets more in.
He sold out the foie gras he had in the first week."
--
Joe Campbell
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
=============
Or that Ms.Prusynski misunderstood. Or that Ms. Prusynski (among others) has
an agenda that is best served by portraying West of Paris in a negative
light. Or Mr. Foucachon misspoke. Or that the Daily News got it wrong.
(first time!) Or, or, or... The bottom line is I wasn't there to hear what
was or wasn't said and I assume you weren't either. The point of my post had
nothing to do with the veracity of anyone and everything to do with being
glad that a new business is attempting to make it's way, under it's own
terms, in a very business unfriendly climate. Divide it into as many issues
as you like, I wish them the best of luck and intend to partake of their
menu at my first opportunity.
gc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
> There are two separate issues here.
>
> First, there is the question of whether or not West of Paris will serve
> fois gras.
>
> Second, there is the question of whether or not Mr. Foucachon lied to
> Megan about the first issue. Megan was planning to hold a protest against
> WoP, talked with Mr. Foucachon, and -- according to Megan -- he told her
> that WoP was not going to serve it until they found a place that didn't
> torture geese. Then we read in the paper that Mr. Foucachon will serve
> fois gras regardless of what the people think. It appears, at least, that
> Mr. Foucachon is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> =============
> Speaking from the more sparsely populated side of the V, I find it a
> pleasant and refreshing change to see someone who has an idea or opinion
> and
> is willing to stick with it despite the mournful lowing of the rest of the
> herd. Just because a segment of the "community" has "concerns" doesn't
> mean
> that an individual needs to bend like a reed in the wind. Having said
> that,
> I've never tried fat goose liver. Sounds kind of icky and with so many
> other
> more palatable items on the menu I think instead of making a federal case
> out of the one item I'll just try something else. If there is no market
> for
> the item, Mr. Foucachon, being a savvy businessman, will doubtlessly
> discontinue it. Of course, unlike some, I don't have a vested interest in
> seeing this enterprise fail. Quite the contrary, It's my hope that this
> and
> many other establishments thrive, allowing Moscow's economy to expand and
> flourish.
>
> Bon appetite,
> gc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>
>
>> Ah, but that is EXACTLY what the owner of West of Paris did.
>>
>> He basically thumbed his nose at the community saying their concerns were
>> baseless and he was going to do what he wanted no matter what. And he
>> said
>> it to a reporter who printed it.
>>
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Deacon James" <deaconblues42 at gmail.com>
>>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>>>Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:03:13 -0700
>>>
>>>Jackie,
>>>
>>>If I owned a restaurant, and I were thinking something nefarious like
>>>"But
>>>I
>>>will be putting it back on as soon as I can when no one is looking," I
>>>probably wouldn't tell it to the newspaper.
>>>
>>>D :]
>>>
>>>On 8/24/06, J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>MOST restaurants that have run out of things, leave it on the menu but
>>>>add
>>>>a
>>>>note that it is unavailable at this time....yer bud there says "I took
>>>>it
>>>>off the menu because of the protest" on one side of his mouth while the
>>>>other side is saying "But I will be putting it back on as soon as I can
>>>>when
>>>>no one is looking."
>>>>
>>>>That's called a false statement - attempting to make people believe one
>>>>way
>>>>when the other is the truth....yeah, I know TRUTH - a foreign concept to
>>>>the
>>>>kirkhood.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, do the elders and Dougie know you've become their unofficial
>>>>spokesperson or have they just not gotten around to writing ye an e-mail
>>>>telling ya to knock it off? Wait - it'll happen; always does,
>>>>especially
>>>>when ye start embarrassing them like ya are..
>>>>
>>>>J :]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >From: "David Williams" <davidwilliams365 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>>>> >Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:44:29 -0400
>>>> >
>>>> >J asks "why would you take it off your menu?"
>>>> >
>>>> >Because he doesn't have any. That's called false advertising. If he
>>>> >doesn't have any, he's not going to advertise that he does, giving
>>>> >false
>>>> >impressions to local patrons. Also, for your reference, he's getting
>>>> >it
>>>> >all the way from France, and if you're not up to date on your
>>>> >geography,
>>>> >that's pretty far away. You know, in Europe.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>>>> >>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:30:44 -0700
>>>> >>
>>>> >>First of all, it is is not ***Moscow*** showing an interest in
>>>>anything,
>>>> >>especially when 'tis kirkers doing the selling and kirkers doing the
>>>> >>buying.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Second, "we almost sold out our first night."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>is translated as "we sold a bit of it to our friends and numerous
>>>>family
>>>> >>members and ended up throwing the rest out due to spoilage reasons."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Third, "The people complaining about foie gras have a point. The way
>>>>the
>>>> >>birds are being stuffed is questionable, and I do believe it's
>>>>important
>>>> >>to
>>>> >>treat animals humanely. I will put foie gras on my menu again when I
>>>>find
>>>> >>a
>>>> >>producer that doesn't engage in force feeding"
>>>> >>
>>>> >>is translated as "They complain, but so what? Can they prove what
>>>> >>they
>>>> >>say?
>>>> >> I will do what I want - its my restaurant."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Fourth, "This is a group that was looking for something to use
>>>> >>against
>>>>my
>>>> >>business and they found something," he said. "While I believe there
>>>> >>are
>>>> >>some
>>>> >>valid concerns here, I'm not going to stop serving what people want.
>>>> >>I
>>>> >>will
>>>> >>put foie gras on my menu again"
>>>> >>
>>>> >>is translated as "THEY are all against me. This is religious
>>>>persecution
>>>> >>and I will not cave - well, ok I am for now, but I WILL BE BACK."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Geez, why bother taking it off the menu if all you're doing is
>>>> >>waiting
>>>>for
>>>> >>the next shipment and hoping people outside yer church donnae find
>>>> >>out
>>>>you
>>>> >>got it? How disingenuous can you get?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>J :]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>>>> >> >To: "'Megan Prusynski'" <megan at meganpru.com>,
>>>> >> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>>>> >> >Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:55:57 -0700
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Hi Megan & Visionaries:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >The following article is from today's Daily News and seems to paint
>>>> >> >a
>>>> >> >slightly different picture. In particular, I take exception with
>>>> >> >Mr.
>>>> >> >Foucachon's statement, "He wants local activists, who got their
>>>> >> >hands
>>>>on
>>>> >>an
>>>> >> >outdated menu earlier this week, to know their threats of protest
>>>>mean
>>>> >> >nothing to him or his staff."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >The "outdated" menu came directly from West of Paris' Web site the
>>>>very
>>>> >>day
>>>> >> >I posted my concerns, not from some nefarious source. And, we know
>>>>from
>>>> >> >Mr.
>>>> >> >Foucachon's comments right here on the Viz that he was aware of the
>>>> >> >inhumanity of the product *before* he included it on West of Paris'
>>>>menu
>>>> >> >:-(((
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Anyway, here's the article:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"Foie gras controversy hits Moscow
>>>> >> >Activists up in arms over delicacy's inclusion on restaurant menu;
>>>>item
>>>> >>has
>>>> >> >since been removed
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >By Alexis Bacharach Daily News staff writer
>>>> >> >Published: 08-23-2006
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Foie gras is no longer available at Moscow's West of Paris, but not
>>>>for
>>>> >>the
>>>> >> >reasons one might think.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Restaurant owner Francis Foucachon sold out of the item his first
>>>>week
>>>> >>in
>>>> >> >business.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >He wants local activists, who got their hands on an outdated menu
>>>> >>earlier
>>>> >> >this week, to know their threats of protest mean nothing to him or
>>>>his
>>>> >> >staff.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"Here is the bottom line," he said. "I ordered a small amount just
>>>> >> >to
>>>> >>see
>>>> >> >if
>>>> >> >there was a demand in Moscow. It was such a huge success, we almost
>>>>sold
>>>> >> >out
>>>> >> >our first night."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Foie gras, French for fatty liver, is produced through a process of
>>>> >> >force-feeding ducks and geese until their livers become saturated
>>>>with
>>>> >>fat.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Handlers insert tubes down the birds' throats and funnel pounds of
>>>> >>cornmeal
>>>> >> >into their stomachs several times a day.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Megan Prusynski, a local activist with People for the Ethical
>>>>Treatment
>>>> >>of
>>>> >> >Animals and the Humane Society of the United States, said
>>>> >> >consumption
>>>>of
>>>> >> >foie gras went down in areas that provided focused education and
>>>> >>outreach
>>>> >> >programs.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >With that in mind, she's teaming with local and national groups,
>>>> >>including
>>>> >> >Compassion Speaks at Washington State University, to organize
>>>>protests
>>>> >>in
>>>> >> >Friendship Square later this month.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"There are still a lot of people out there who don't know what foie
>>>>gras
>>>> >>is
>>>> >> >or how it's made," she said. "When I heard there was a restaurant
>>>> >> >in
>>>> >>Moscow
>>>> >> >serving it, I started talking to people about doing some kind of
>>>>protest
>>>> >>to
>>>> >> >raise people's awareness - maybe get it banned."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >More than a dozen countries, including Israel, Germany, the United
>>>> >>Kingdom,
>>>> >> >Austria, the Czech Republic, Finland, Italy, Poland and Denmark,
>>>> >> >have
>>>> >> >outlawed the French delicacy.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >In the United States, lawmakers are proposing bans at the state and
>>>> >> >municipal levels.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >The California Legislature passed a phased ban last year on the
>>>> >>production
>>>> >> >and sale of foie gras. Earlier this month, city leaders in Chicago
>>>> >>banned
>>>> >> >the controversial item from all menus in the city.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"The people complaining about foie gras have a point," Foucachon
>>>>said.
>>>> >>"The
>>>> >> >way the birds are being stuffed is questionable, and I do believe
>>>>it's
>>>> >> >important to treat animals humanely. I will put foie gras on my
>>>> >> >menu
>>>> >>again
>>>> >> >when I find a producer that doesn't engage in force feeding."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >PETA spokesman Matt Prescott said that's a victory for animal
>>>> >> >rights,
>>>> >> >because Foucachon will never find what he's looking for.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"There are producers in the industry who say their foie gras is
>>>>produced
>>>> >> >humanely, but such claims are unsubstantiated," he said.
>>>>"Investigations
>>>> >>at
>>>> >> >every foie gras farm has uncovered incidents of sick, dead and
>>>> >> >abused
>>>> >> >animals. We've seen birds with holes in their throats and bloody
>>>>beaks.
>>>> >> >We've seen farms where dead birds were dangling from wires,
>>>> >> >dripping
>>>> >>blood
>>>> >> >on the live birds."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Video footage and photo galleries on PETA's Web site provide images
>>>>of
>>>> >> >birds
>>>> >> >with gaping wounds, images of blood-soaked cages and buckets full
>>>> >> >of
>>>> >> >feathered corpses.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"No animal should be subject to torture," Foucachon said. "But
>>>> >> >these
>>>> >>things
>>>> >> >they're complaining about, I would suggest American chickens are
>>>>treated
>>>> >> >far
>>>> >> >worse than the ducks and the geese. Why aren't people writing
>>>> >> >letters
>>>> >>and
>>>> >> >staging protests at the grocery stores and restaurants that sell
>>>> >>chicken?"
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Why stop there, he asked?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Foucachon suggested protests against restaurants that cook live
>>>> >>lobsters.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"This is a group that was looking for something to use against my
>>>> >>business
>>>> >> >and they found something," he said. "While I believe there are some
>>>> >>valid
>>>> >> >concerns here, I'm not going to stop serving what people want. I
>>>> >> >will
>>>> >>put
>>>> >> >foie gras on my menu again."
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Alexis Bacharach can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238, or by
>>>> >>e-mail
>>>> >> >at
>>>> >> >abacharach at dnews.com "
>>>> >> >________
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >A Very Disappointed Saundra Lund
>>>> >> >Moscow, ID
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
>>>>to
>>>> >>do
>>>> >> >nothing.
>>>> >> >- Edmund Burke
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
>>>> >>Lund.
>>>> >> >Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
>>>> >>forum
>>>> >> >without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> >>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>>> >> >On Behalf Of Megan Prusynski
>>>> >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:55 AM
>>>> >> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I also wanted to give you all an update on West of Paris and the
>>>> >> >foie
>>>> >>gras
>>>> >> >issue. Mr. Foucachon has decided to take foie gras off the menu and
>>>> >> >I
>>>> >>would
>>>> >> >like to congratulate and thank him for making the compassionate
>>>>choice.
>>>> >> >Hopefully his kind actions can be a way to educate people about
>>>> >> >just
>>>> >>what
>>>> >> >goes into foie gras production and how cruel it is. Thanks very
>>>> >> >much,
>>>> >>Mr.
>>>> >> >Foucachon and West of Paris. :)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >=======================================================
>>>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> >> > http://www.fsr.net
>>>> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >> >=======================================================
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
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>>>> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >> >=======================================================
>>>> >>
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>>
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>
>
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