[Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!
James Reynolds
chapandmaize at hotmail.com
Wed Aug 23 13:00:58 PDT 2006
You're a good man Mr. Crabtree. Somewhat coy, but a pleasant fellow all in all. My skin is actually very thick, calloused through years and years of interactions with everyday people just like you and me. I would hope, won't hold my breath however, that in the future if you have questions about what I have posted that you just ask, rather than use nursery rhymes to attempt to belittle me.
James
From: jampot at adelphia.netTo: chapandmaize at hotmail.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:13:24 -0700
My goodness, manly enough to give lessons yet thin skinned enough to lash out if someone remarks that a statement that they made was passing odd. Would it help to salve your obviously bruised feelings if I were to accede that I am mortally wounded by your cutting remarks with regard to the stork, the bunny, and Mr. Claus? Quite frankly I am only too willing to have you castigate me for any number of childish things if that is what it takes to help you achieve some kind of comfort level with regard to your previous posts.
Please let me know if there is anything else I can own up to that will make you fell better. Till then I remain at your service.
G. Crabtree
----- Original Message -----
From: James Reynolds
To: g. crabtree ; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!
Mr. Crabtree, I should have answered about my TV viewing habits. There isn't much on that grabs my interest but occasionally a new movie will come out with some clever monster in it....I like a good monster. I never watch sports except maybe the superbowl. I am not sure what Bravo is (gambling channel?) but I don't watch that, nor do I know what O2 is but as it came from you it is probably a children's channel huh? Do you believe in the Easter bunny big guy? How about Santa? Not to spoil anything for you but they aren't real either. James
From: jampot at adelphia.netTo: chapandmaize at hotmail.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:02:00 -0700
Mr. Reynolds, I all it takes for you to start handing out epithets such as right wing nuts and unasked for lessons on "proper manly behavior" is to observe that the fetus recycling program you outlined in your previous post was unusual, I shudder to think what I might be treated to should I actually outline my thoughts on the subject in question. Suffice it to say that you have no clue as to my position on this matter and to take me to task based on your assumptions is absurd. Since you seem to be of a mind to educate, perhaps you could enlighten me as to your expertise in the matters of all things masculine? PHD in guy studies? Or was it just lots of ESPN. Please don't tell me it was Bravo & O2.
gc
----- Original Message -----
From: James Reynolds
To: g. crabtree ; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!
Gary and Tony, I really only got onto this thread because Tony was becoming a bit too hostile to others on the site and I felt it my duty to deflect his anger toward me. It is just a habit of mine to engage against unwarranted agression. I am older now, but my blood still boils. Now that I am in the middle of this with a couple of genuine right-wing nuts, I will try to entertain you with my thoughts. I am not sure of when the assignment of souls occurs during a childs development and by your tones I don't believe you have a clue. Spiritual leaders differ in their understandings also but the assignment of a particular soul to a child is widely used to explain why humans are what we are. I have read on the biological development and some on what spiritual leaders think and have come understanding that it isn't until late in pregnancy. Some spiritual leaders even think the assignment is some time after birth. My thought is that if the assignment of soul has not yet happened before an abortion then the assignment would occur at a later inception. Storks don't really bring babies Gary, that is just in the books you read. The biological evidence of the later assignment of the soul, to me, comes form the observation that ontogeny does repeat phylogeny. it would not make sense to give a human soul to something with gill slits or just a notochord. My practical stand on the issue of abortion is that it is something for women to figure out and for men to back them on their decision. It seems to me to be very unlikely that Tony is the nurturing person that he tries to portray to be concerning abortion. Most men, including myself are simply not very nurturing. What is more likely is that Tony wants man to dominate woman. He has expressed a non-nurturing attitude in volumes on this list and has also demonstrated a demeaning attitude toward women on this list. As a little guidance to Tony I would offer to him that a man doesn't and shouldn't feel the need to dominate a woman. it is unnecessary and counterproductive to a healthy life for both involved for a man to try and lord himself over women and it will usually end in a terminated relationship. I think a lot of men don't know how to handle their warrior self because they were not taught properly to begin with. Women are to be revered and protected form physical harm by man. That is man's primary duty. The rest of life will take care of itself if you pick up on that. How many children do you think would be on this earth if there wasn't this basic exchange going on? A good example of this strategy comes from Christian doctrine. Remember that the two most important men in the Christian religion were born without the influence of man but but both Zecharia (sp) and Joseph took their manly chores and supported Elizabeth and Mary. Use this as an example and don't assert your manly selves into the realm that belongs to woman and God. Us men are the warriors and will always be hounded by this. When jesus was born what did man do? He killed all of the babes in the land to fulfill some awful destiny that is our curse. We need to keep a handle on this fellows. One thing we men can do to reduce unwanted pregnancies and so abortions is to find strict punishments for the men who cause such pregnancies. A good punishment might be...to paraphrase Tony... is to rip the genitals from the offending male, cut them to pieces and throw them in the trash. I would like to continue with your teachings on proper manly behavior but I must now go to work. Later gentlemen. James
From: jampot at adelphia.netTo: chapandmaize at hotmail.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:48:45 -0700
Come back at a later date? What, on the back of a stork? And where, exactly does little Freddy or Freda Fetus hang in the interim? Is there a departure lounge someplace that I'm unaware of? This could well be the oddest thing I've read on the V ever.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: James Reynolds
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!
Tony, Since you want to speak for the unborn I shall also. I would bet that a fetus conceived at some totally inopportune moment in in a woman's life would rather come back at a later date when the mother could give her best to the child. I think it is far more appropriate for the woman in question to make the decision if the time was right.....not some right-winged nut job. I think a child would think the same thing. Your little argument about License versus Freedom is very tricky tony but stupid. Of course the definitions are different or there wouldn't be the two words but the freedom to give License is a freedom just the same. If you want to disallow the ability to give License then you are curtailing freedom. You probably got this little tidbit from a Carl Rove handout. It sounds as dumb assed as he is. James
> From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:23:54 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!> > James,> > You ask how I can oppose flag burning and still claim to support freedom. > Answer: You confuse freedom with license. Flag burning is no more an > expression of speech than is yelling fire in a crowded theater. Liberals > always take a ridiculous, anything goes approach to freedom, not recognizing > that with freedom comes responsibility.> > You ask How I can deny marriage to gays and claim to support freedom. I am > advocating that the institution of marriage not be destroyed by the > licentious behavior of the militant homosexual community. This is > supportive of the right of the vast majority to not have their institutions > assaulted.> > You ask how I can support the right of unborn Americans not to be savagely > ripped from the womb and trash canned, while claiming to support freedom. > James, I would bet that these innocents, so brutally murdered by > abortionists, would appreciate my support of their freedom to survive and > grow.> > You say that I come across as mean spirited, yet it is you who wishes to > destroy America's foundational institutions. It is you who would assist > those thoughtless punks who burn the flag. It is you who callously act as > an accessory to the premeditated snuffing out of innocent life.> > Forget it buddy, keep your confused thinking, lack of proper perspective and > moral bankruptsy away from me.> > Refusing to cow down to those who would enable child killing and flag > burning, --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:49 AM> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom> > > > Tony favors retaining the right to free expression to those who share> > opinions approved of by him and other statists.> >> > Sunil> >> >> >>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>> >>To: <kjajmix1 at msn.com>> >>CC: Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's > >>ass!> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:04:05 -0700> >>> >>This line is what makes your arguments hollow Tony.> >>> >>"Those who consistently favor state control verses local autonomy and> >>freedom, are enemies."> >>> >>How can you advocate all the controls to be placed upon the citizenry (no> >>flags will be burned, no gays will be wed, no women will have abortion> >>etc...) and yet claim to be for freedom. I think you are your own worst> >>enemy. You come across as a mean spirited crass individual who only wishes> >>to lord his will over others.> >>> >>Forget it buddy, keep your controlling ideas away from me.> >>> >>James> >>> >>> >>> >> > From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug> >>2006 01:34:17 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]> >>Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > Yes Keely, you might> >>support my right to free speech, as it is acknowledged > within the Bill > >>of> >>Rights. That is nice and all, but irrelevant. Flag > burning is not> >>speech. It is thoughtless and ungrateful acting out, as I > correctly> >>noted in my original post.> > Those who consistently support policies > >>which> >>would favor America's enemies > are enemies as well. Those who> >>consistently favor state control verses > local autonomy and freedom, are> >>enemies. Those who wish to disarm peaceful > citizens, leaving them and> >>their families vulnerable to state tyranny or > civilian crime, are> >>enemies. Those who advocate the premeditated murder of > the most > >>helpless> >>among us, are enemies. Those who feel the government is > justified in> >>taking from one American the fruits of his production, and > giving it to> >>another who chooses not to produce, are enemies.> > They of course would> >>prefer not to be regarded as such. Indeed, they may > actually regard> >>themselves as patriots, but the fact remains that their > behavior speaks> >>for itself. Irrelevant apples and oranges comparisons > notwithstanding.> > >> >> >>Still fed up with America's domestic enemies, -Tony> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "keely emerinemix"> >><kjajmix1 at msn.com>> To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <london at moscow.com>> Cc:> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:05 PM> Subject:> >>Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > > >> >>Because "subversive hippie" Bill London is my friend, and because Tony > >> >>considers him, me, and others like us to be America's "domestic enemies" >> >> > when we defend the rights of people to do things that are offensive --> >> > > such as "desecrating" a flag, as Bill put it -- I feel compelled to> >>note > > that when we find Tony's speech to be sickening, vituperative,> >>destructive > > and nasty, we still defend his right to say it.> >> >> >>Which, I can't help but think, is a good indicator of one's loyalty to the> >> > > principles of the Constitution guiding one's nation. Kinda not an> >>enemy > > position in my mind.> >> > keely> >> >> > From: "Tony Simpson"> >><tonytime at clearwire.net>> > To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> > CC:> >>vision2020 at moscow.com> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick> >>a flag--burner's ass!> > Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0700> >> > Leave> >>it to a subversive Hippie like Bill London to praise those who would> >> >>burn the American flag. Pathetic and loathsome. Flower child London > >> >>says,> > "If I chose to desecrate a flag by burning it in an open > >>place....> >>so > > what?> > That is free speech."> >> > What pure, unadulterated> >>horseshit! There is no speech involved in such a> > juvenile, > >>thoughtless,> >>ungrateful and snotnosed activity. It is> > unpatriotic, typically > >>liberal> >>acting out. If that is free speech, Billy> > Boy, then it would be free> >>speech for me to walk up to said burner and > > bury> > my boot a foot up> >>his terrorist--enabling ass!> >> > Sick to death of America's domestic> >>enemies, --TONY> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Bill London"> >><london at moscow.com>> > To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>;> >><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > <sslund at adelphia.net>;> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:13 AM> >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> >> >> > > Since > >>you> >>asked.....> > > a few of my reasons why I think a Constitutional amendment> >>against> > > desecrating the flag is stupid....> > > 1. what is the> >>problem? how many descrated flags are there?> > > 2. if I own the flag > >>and> >>choose to desecrate it by burning it in an open> > > place that will not> >>cause a general fire, so what? That is free speech.> > > The flag is a> >>symbol, and burning it is Constitutionally-protected.> > > 3. what is> >>desecration? wearing a flag on the butt of your jeans?> > > wrapping> > >> >>your used car in flags to sell it at a used car lot? getting a tattoo > >> >> > of> > > flag upside down? Boy Scouts burning old flags?> > > BL> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: "Matt Decker"> >><mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> > > To: <london at moscow.com>;> >><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > > <sslund at adelphia.net>;> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:21 PM> > >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >> Mr.> >>London,> > >>> > >> And just as they should. Why shouldn't the congress> >>take one day out of> > >> their schedule in order to make flag burning an> >>offense? If they focus> > on> > >> baseball why not on the flag?> > >>> >> >> >> Matt> > >>> > >>> > >> >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> > >>> >> >To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>,> >> >><sslund at adelphia.net>,> > >> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> >Subject:> >>Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >Date: Thu, 17 Aug > >>2006> >>12:33:43 -0700> > >> >> > >> >Yes, it is true that Chicago has (for the> >>reasons Ms. Lund has> > > enumerated)> > >> >banned foie gras, because of> >>the disgusting and inhumane way the birds> > > are> > >> >force-fed to> >>create these inflated livers. Chicago has not banned > > >> >duck> > >>> >> >liver, only foie gras.> > >> >And as for the reason, it's all a question> >>of values, as the> > Republicans> > >> >say every year when they try to> >>amend the US Constitution to end the> > >> >non-existant problem of people> >>burning US flags.> > >> >BL> > >> > ----- Original Message -----> > >> >> >> From: kerry becker> > >> > To: sslund at adelphia.net ;> >>vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56 PM> > >> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > This is absurd. The city> >>of Chicago has taken the time to ban duck> > >> >liver?? - Meanwhile the> >>inner city runs rampant with crime, poverty > > >> >and> > >> >drugs. Odd> >>really.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > -> > >> >> > >> > From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>> >> >> >> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> > Subject: Re:> >>[Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > Date: Wed, 16 Aug> >>2006 15:38:46 -0700> > >> > >Visionaries:> > >> > >> > >> > >I> >>have debated and debated about whether to post this or not, > > >> > but> > >> >> >> > I'd> > >> >hate> > >> > >for an unsuspecting person to go to West > >> > of> >>Paris only to be> > >> >horrified.> > >> > >> > >> > >I was deeply> >>disappointed to see that West of Paris will be> > >> > selling> > >> > >> >foie>> >> > >> > >gras:> > >> >> >> >http://www.westofparis.com/dinner_menu.html> > >> > >For that reason> >>alone, I will refuse to patronize the business,> > no> > >> >matter> > >> > >> >> >> >how delicious other menu items look or sound -- it's a matter of> >> >> >> >ethics for> > >> > >me.> > >> > >> > >> > >The process> >>used to make foie gras is animal cruelty, pure and> > > simple> > >> >> >>:-(((> > >> > >Fifteen nations (including the UK, the Czech Republic,> >>Denmark,> > >> >Finland,> > >> > >Germany, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland,> >>Sweden, Switzerland, and> > > Israel> > >> >--> > >> > >formerly the> >>fourth largest producer in the world) have banned> > >> >force-feeding> >> >> >> > >birds for foie gras production. The City of Chicago has > >> >> > banned>> >> > >> > the> > >> >sale of> > >> > >foie gras, and Philadelphia is> >>likely to follow. Beginning > > >> > 2012,> > > the> > >> >> >> >production and sale of foie gras from force-fed birds will be> > >> >>banned> > >> >in the> > >> > >State of California.> > >> > >> > >>> >> > >I won't go into the horrifying and graphic details of how foie> >> >> >> > gras> > >> >is> > >> > >produced, but for those who want to > >> >> > learn> >>more, you can check> > out:> > >> >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras> > >> > >You can also Google> >>it, but WARNING: there's a lot of deeply> > >> >disturbing> > >> >> >> >(although accurate) information and photos you'll find.> > >> > >> >> >> >> > >Very disappointing that foie gras will be sold in *any* Moscow>> >> > >> >restaurant> > >> > >:-(((> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >JMNSHO,> > >> > >Saundra Lund> > >> > >Moscow, ID> > >> > > >> >>> >> > >> > >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good>> >> > >> > people> > >> >to do> > >> > >nothing.> > >> > >- Edmund> >>Burke> > >> > >> > >> > >***** Original material contained herein> >>is Copyright 2006,> > >> > Saundra> > >> >Lund.> > >> > >Do not copy,> >>forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision> > >> > 2020> > >>> >> >forum> > >> > >without the express written permission of the> >>author.*****> > >> > >> > >> > >-----Original Message-----> > >> >> >> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> > >>> >> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]> > >> > >On Behalf Of Daniel> >>Foucachon> > >> > >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:59 PM> > >> >> >> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > >Subject: [Vision2020] West of> >>Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >> > > West of > > >> >> >>Paris<http://www.westofparis.com/images/west_paris.gif>> > >> > >Grand> >>Opening> > >> > >Friday, August 18th, 2006> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >Now accepting reservations> > >> > >> > >> > >Call (208)> >>882-4279> > >> > >> > >> > >www.westofparis.com> >><http://www.westofparis.com/> | opening at> > > 6:00> > >> >p.m.> > >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >=======================================================> > >> > >> >>List services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > > > >>serving> >>the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> > >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >> >> >> > >=======================================================> > >> > >> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > ---> > >> > Windows Live Spaces is here! It's easy to create your> >>own personal> > >> > Web> > >> >site.> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > ---> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>=======================================================> > >> > List> >>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > serving the> >>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > >> >> >> =======================================================> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >=======================================================> > >> > List> >>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > serving the> >>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > >>> >> >=======================================================> > >>> > >>> >>_________________________________________________________________> > >>> >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! 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