[Vision2020] Line and 6th
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 22 19:30:24 PDT 2006
I don't disagree that a light would be better (a smart light at that) but at
least we have the stop. Its a step in the correct direction.
I also liked the sound of the street walk-ways that were implants, if that's
the correct term. Does anyone know where a web site may be that would show
more of those or even what they are called? I think that has a lot of
potential like on Pullman Rd outside of Tri-State.
J :]
>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>To: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:49:46 -0700
>
>I think those particular intersections work well because there are no turn
>lanes. There's a big difference between crossing a two-lane versus a
>three-lane street. Because of the added complexity involved at such an
>intersection and the added time to cross due to the number of lanes I think
>that a traffic light would be more appropriate. Perhaps it could be on
>sensors so it's a straight run through for Mountain View when noone is at
>the intersection.
>
>I do think that a four-way stop would be better than not having one in the
>mean time. Drivers are more willing to let pedestrians cross when they are
>stopped than when they are moving.
>
>Paul
>
>J Ford wrote:
>
>>What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?
>>
>>The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and White,
>>and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have proven that
>>they provide safety and several of those did not follow warrant criteria
>>that "allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.
>>
>>The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is attempting
>>to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving the 4-way stop
>>at D and Mt. View. They did so out of concern for the children *and* the
>>drivers of Moscow.
>>
>>
>>J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>>To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>, Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>>>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>>I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop
>>>would necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved
>>>case.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> _DJA
>>>
>>>Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote: One problem at the center of
>>>this issue is the value question of which is more important: The risk
>>>to pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased vehicular throughput.
>>>
>>> When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a
>>>very high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO
>>>enforcement with citations. Perhaps now more people are more
>>>"me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a
>>>given time period than they are about the safety and activities of
>>>others. Have our values changed so that for many the importance of
>>>safety at D and Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not a
>>>big concern for many.
>>>
>>> The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday a
>>>very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently
>>>decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the
>>>crosswalk.
>>>
>>> Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through
>>>downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by
>>>impatient drivers.
>>>
>>> Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager
>>>who does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations the
>>>residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do, and
>>>does not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city when
>>>he goes home.
>>>
>>> W.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rumelhart
>>> To: Vision 2020
>>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware that
>>>students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for them.
>>>Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably because of the
>>>habits the students have of just blindly walking into the intersections.
>>> This is how they've been taught through experience. At Mountain View
>>>and D streets, you're on a 35 mph road which many people think of as a
>>>road that is more traffic-centered than pedestrian-centered, although
>>>they should be thinking of it as the opposite at that intersection.
>>>There are also turn lanes at that intersection, making the crossing
>>>distance greater.
>>>
>>>I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for everybody.
>>>I understand that there are costs involved, but with the Junior High,
>>>the elementary school, and the water park there, I think it would be a
>>>lot safer.
>>>
>>>As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a grant is
>>>being worked on would be a good place to start. I also like the idea of
>>>getting some more numbers tallied on the subject, but you have to do
>>>more than just maximize throughput. You have to maximise safety for the
>>>children even at the expense of driving time. Especially there. In my
>>>opinion, anyway.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>Donovan Arnold wrote: What are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a
>>>three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a
>>>day. Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And
>>>college students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same time
>>>like they do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that road. But I think
>>>people will be very upset if a four way stop is placed on that
>>>intersection instead of a stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is
>>>much faster then one at a time, and safer.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>_DJA
>>>
>>>Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote: How do we know
>>>that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic for
>>>blocks? Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered
>>>conclusions drawn from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
>>>
>>> There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that
>>>function fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th,
>>>Blaine and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up
>>>traffic for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big
>>>deal), A and Line, are a few examples.
>>>
>>> W.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Donovan
>>>Arnold
>>> To: roger hayes ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop
>>>light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for
>>>blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes
>>>speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if
>>>that road ever reopens).
>>>
>>>It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the volume
>>>of traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that corner
>>>and elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four cars to
>>>come to a stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the number of
>>>cars, if will a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on that section
>>>of road.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>_DJA
>>>
>>>roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com> wrote: > A timed
>>>light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
>>> > intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not
>>>just
>>> > occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a
>>>cheap,
>>> > effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would be
>>>more
>>> > aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd
>>>probably want
>>> > to leave the blinking yellow light though.
>>>
>>>Roger Hayes
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the
>>>increasing
>>> >> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
>>> >> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on foot
>>>and by
>>> >> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a
>>>good idea
>>> >> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It will,
>>>however,
>>> >> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to
>>>urban street.
>>> >> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in the
>>>area, the
>>> >> change will not be a bad thing.
>>> >
>>> > Roger Hayes
>>> >
>>> >> From: cynthia nichols
>>> >> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
>>> >> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
>>> >> ,
>>> >> bill lambert , Vision 2020
>>> >> , Robert Stout ,
>>> >> john dickinson
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700
>>> >>
>>> >> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on Mountain
>>>View
>>> >> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a day.
>>>Or even
>>> >> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the day
>>>and blink
>>> >> red during those peak-use times.
>>> >>
>>> >> The city needs to require the developer to finish the
>>>sidewalk on the
>>> >> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling
>>>Hills.
>>> >>
>>> >> cynthia nichols
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston
>>>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic
>>> light
>>> >>> there, set it
>>> >>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview
>>>direction,
>>> >>> but run
>>> >>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high
>>> >>> traffic, "kid"
>>> >>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm
>>>given
>>> >>> the "kid
>>> >>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that
>>>intersection. The
>>> >>> traffic
>>> >>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented
>>>crossing
>>> >>> opportunity
>>> >>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would provide is
>>> >>> significant.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to
>>>walk to
>>> >>> school
>>> >>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when
>>>crossing
>>> >>> Mountainview at D Street.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce Livingston
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Craine Kit"
>>> >>> To: "Vision 2020"
>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Kit Craine
>>>
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